State of the Market

[jayn200]

Would you also agree that the fools are therefore those that have been (and still are) paying £450+/day for such (un)skills.

I think any job that gets posted and has 4000+ applicants that can do the job is too high of a day rate. The market is telling you that you're priced too high and basic supply and demand should tell you to lower your price.

But that's just based off the other poster saying PM roles get 4000 applicants. I have no idea if that's accurate or at what rate that is at and when that was.

I think that is why most people hiring a PM want a PM who has delivered the exact same project somewhere else. I'm sure that requirement brings that number down significantly and the economics change.

Sorry I know it's not a direct answer but it's because I just don't know.

[Paralytic]

I think any job that gets posted and has 4000+ applicants that can do the job is too high of a day rate. The market is telling you that you're priced too high and basic supply and demand should tell you to lower your price.

But that's just based off the other poster saying PM roles get 4000 applicants. I have no idea if that's accurate or at what rate that is at and when that was.

I think that is why most people hiring a PM want a PM who has delivered the exact same project somewhere else. I'm sure that requirement brings that number down significantly and the economics change.

Sorry I know it's not a direct answer but it's because I just don't know.

This is based on a post from someone who invents a new friend every time he wants to troll.

There is no evidence that any PM roles did get 4000 applicants. The fact that PM roles existed at the start of this year at £500+ suggest there was not (at that time) a glut of candidates that would drive down rates.

[GhostofTarbera]

Have you programmed before?

You think you can go from 0 to master of a language in 6 months?

Maybe you can learn syntax and some basic fundamentals of programming enough to be a junior and do some relatively mundane tasks. I wouldn't trust that person with design and architecture.

An existing programmer can learn a new language and become a master in that new language inside a probation period because they already know the fundamentals of OOP.

The skills I learned in my technical undergrad and technical master's I use in every contract. I also have an MBA I don't use that at all in any contract work but it has been the difference maker in getting a couple contracts.

I'm actually not advocating against the necessity of PMs. That is someone else. It really depends on the project. I think the concept is a little outdated for certain software projects but not all. Multi person implemention teams typically still have a PM for example.

Just saying there are a very wide range of people who can be PMs and it's an unskilled job unless you consider soft skills as being a skilled job but then you'd also have to say sales is a skilled job then.

Anyway wasn't meant to be an insult. I think some people are too sensitive here.

Being a CEO of a company is also an unskilled job. CFO is a skilled job. It doesn't mean a CFO is better than a CEO.

You can be a CEO without any university education, vocational training or even on the job training but a CFO would require skills traditionally obtained through degree education and a professional qualification but not always.

Post a job ad for CEO and you'll get a larger number of qualified applicants than a CFO position even though it'll pay better.

It's just how it is.

I was 15 years as a hard-core programmer, shorts, white socks with flip flop type (no beard) dilbert reading, witty T-Shirt with sifi coding machine.

Before I became a PM


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[jayn200]

I was 15 years as a hard-core programmer, shorts, white socks with flip flop type (no beard) dilbert reading, witty T-Shirt with sifi coding machine.

Before I became a PM


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

I wonder if that skewed your perception. I know that sometimes I have to remind myself that learning something might not be as easy or quick for people who haven't developed the same skills. I would just ask as a PM would you trust someone who has never worked before or done any education/certifications in programming with the design and architecture of your software project after only 6 months on the job?

Anyway PMs with subject matter expertise like yourself (assume you're a software development PM) are much different than a career PM who has no subject matter expertise and you can't treat the 2 the same.

[PerfectStorm]

For contractors playing by the rules, you can apply for your monthly £600 from today

[MisterLysenkiy]

For contractors playing by the rules, you can apply for your monthly £600 from today

Any guidance/instructions on that?

[PerfectStorm]

Any guidance/instructions on that?

The gov put a calculator and detailed guidance online today

Accountants are handling the dirty work if you ask them

[MisterLysenkiy]

The gov put a calculator and detailed guidance online today

By the bove, do you keep in mind making a director furlough with 80% of his monthly PAYE of 719 pounds? Or something new and different published just today?
Any link to that guidance and calculator?

[PerfectStorm]

By the bove, do you keep in mind making a director furlough with 80% of his monthly PAYE of 719 pounds? Or something new and different published just today?
Any link to that guidance and calculator?

Yes.

Guidance: Work out 80% of your employees' wages to claim through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

Calc: Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme calculator - Job Retention Scheme Calculator - GOV.UK

[LondonManc]

A good PM is not unskilled labour. That's a key difference. Anyone can be a bad PM and I'm sure we've all seen our fair share. If I were a PM then I'd have been looking to transition to product owner if I'm more on the business side or scrum master on the project and process side or ideally programme manager if you've got the experience and leadership skills to step up.