Originally posted by CheeseSlice
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State of the Market
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"Don't part with your illusions; when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" Mark Twain -
PMs haven't gone away, they're just called Scrum Masters or some other bollards instead⭐️ Gold Star ContractorComment
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Saying you can run projects without project managers and instead use scrum masters is like saying you can run countries without prime ministers and use people like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump - ie utterly ridiculous and resulting in death and destruction on a grand scale.
Therefore neither is likely to happen in real life..."Don't part with your illusions; when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" Mark TwainComment
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Originally posted by Cirrus View PostSaying you can run projects without project managers and instead use scrum masters is like saying you can run countries without prime ministers and use people like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump - ie utterly ridiculous and resulting in death and destruction on a grand scale.
Therefore neither is likely to happen in real life...
They were all from India, via the same large consultancy; we were charged £180-200 per PM per day.
So the questions to the PMs on here is - do you want to be playing in that arena?nomadd liked this postComment
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I do love the way some people completely dismiss a role on the grounds they haven't encountered one for a couple of years!
Not everyone has adopted agile and frankly a lot who claim they have haven't. Agile was supposed to be the death knell for BAs and dedicated testers but both groups seem to rumble on. Basically coders and higher management have a dream where you can have a way of working involving developers talking to users and no one else is needed.
Problem is it never works that way.Comment
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Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View PostThat’s so 2018 thinking
PM role is retired
Saying the same thing repeatedly isn't going to make your point any stronger than the first time you said - presumably in 2018.
My last role ending end March paid me just shy of £700/day. So it seems that for a few, it is still a term to be searched for, and paid for.
Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View PostFrom an agent friend
3 years ago at Xmas they had 3000+ PM roles available
2 years ago they had just over a thousand
Last year they had a few hundred
At Xmas this year they had none
If there is a project, there is someone to manage it. Call him/her what you will, but if Products need Product Managers, in the same thinking, so too Projects.Comment
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Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post3 years ago at Xmas they had 3000+ PM roles available
2 years ago they had just over a thousand
Last year they had a few hundred
At Xmas this year they had noneComment
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Originally posted by Dhrucku View PostBogus.
PM is not unskilled, market has taken a dip, most if not all projects are on hold or cancelled. Once things pick up, these PM actors will be required to carry out the necessary.
Again not saying it as an insult. Some very high paying jobs in society are unskilled.Comment
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Originally posted by MisterLysenkiy View Posttrusting your figures as given, it still does not answer my question: why this declining trend happens?
But the problem is I've seen loads of project managers who have little or no idea about the complexities of software design and construction, hardware, databases, testing,business domain knowledge etc etc. Yet they do a passable job as a PM. Many times they do a really quite good job. At the end of the day being a PM is something you can potentially just sit down and do in a way you couldn't just walk in and be a C#.NET programmer without some years of practice (of one sort or another).
There's always a need for project managers but whether companies have to go outside and advertise to get somebody with lots of experience, well that's an entirely different matter.
(Note, on occasions - which is rare on big projects - I have had a look at developers' code, it has often been tulipe so don't necessarily assume you have to be at all good to get a job as a coding despite all the long list of products you need to be familiar with)Last edited by Cirrus; 19 April 2020, 22:07."Don't part with your illusions; when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" Mark TwainComment
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Originally posted by jayn200 View PostWhat are the skills? What degree is required to do the job? How long would it take for someone who has never done a degree or worked before to be trained to do a PM role? If the answer is less than 3-6 months(average probation period) then you can't really call it a skilled job. Sure there are soft skills but you can say that about literally any job.
Again not saying it as an insult. Some very high paying jobs in society are unskilled.
What degree has helped in any contract?
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