State of the Market

[BigJohn]

'go permie' seems to be some kind of mantra here.

where are all these permie jobs you can just walk into at will?

and a £120k/pa contract under a brolly gives you <>£75k clear, where a permie equivalent gives £75k gross.

ok, with some perks, but also with all the HR bollocks and the office politics.

maybe i'm missing something?

Agreed, there’s a lot of fear and fear monger going on here. Although there seems to be more permie roles compared to contracts right now they can be just as difficult to secure, especially the more senior you get if you want a comparison to a contract salary.

People mention the perks of perm work but in my opinion a greater take home pay outweighs the health care options (that are hardly ever used) share schemes, taxed bonuses etc.


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[simes]

Cheers, will try that thanks

In this climate, doesn't one just try whatever one is allowed to try?

Which is to say, doesn't one tend to do next, what one has done in the past? And this is dictated by the CV.

Whenever an agent calls up and engages in conversation, s/he starts with the question gambit, What do you want to do next? And I, with a CV without Banking say, Well get me into Banking.

I say this just to highlight the stupidity of the question. And, once realised, s/he settles into the normal patter of matching CV to opportunities.

Anyway, good luck.

[MyUserName]

'go permie' seems to be some kind of mantra here.

where are all these permie jobs you can just walk into at will?

and a £120k/pa contract under a brolly gives you <>£75k clear, where a permie equivalent gives £75k gross.

ok, with some perks, but also with all the HR bollocks and the office politics.

maybe i'm missing something?

You are mainly missing that you only get paid a day's rate if you work that day and contracts can easily change every couple of months. Not all life styles support that.

[BR14]

You are mainly missing that you only get paid a day's rate if you work that day and contracts can easily change every couple of months. Not all life styles support that.

my point was the 'just go permie' mantra.
how can it be that easy?
like switching on a light.

[PCTNN]

The market will determine where rates end up. I don't expect any increase initially, until things settle down.

That's what I think is going to happen as well. Companies don't know how contracting works at all so they will just switch from outside to inside without adjusting rates. The mediocre contractors will just take those rates or switch to a permanent role with a mediocre salary. Therefore, the rates/salaries will not increase right away.

Once things settle down and the companies realise they need to pay to get quality contractors, rates will increase. The question is: how long until this happens? I'd say no less than 6 months.

[BlueSharp]

That's what I think is going to happen as well. Companies don't know how contracting works at all so they will just switch from outside to inside without adjusting rates. The mediocre contractors will just take those rates or switch to a permanent role with a mediocre salary. Therefore, the rates/salaries will not increase right away.

Once things settle down and the companies realise they need to pay to get quality contractors, rates will increase. The question is: how long until this happens? I'd say no less than 6 months.

Let's see how contractors respond to going from outside to inside at the same client first, if indeed this is the way the market goes. There will certainly be less outside roles but no one knows what percentage. Will companies offer more to help keep key resource who have switched from outside to inside and want to leave to manage risk?

I think we will see an increase in rates to cover Employers NI and the contractor responsible for the rest which seems fair especially if they want to attract quality candidates.

[ContractorHardman]

A quick note on the "Permiedom"

HSBC declared there are no Contractors after September. I know for a fact they are hiring contractors in pockets of the business and I have seen one getting short extensions. It means for big businesses like HSBC, there will always be rogue elements.

What I take from this is what a few others have said. There have been a few businesses that have got a bit of a fright however I think they will come back and renew their strategy.

We are all technically IR35 compliant within our contracts and a lot of contracts are written to that extent. We are just switching liability. The other thing is IR35 has been rarely proven. The big Companies lawyers should be able to handle these cases (If it ever gets to that stage) with no problems.

[CryingSheep]

A quick note on the "Permiedom"

HSBC declared there are no Contractors after September. I know for a fact they are hiring contractors in pockets of the business and I have seen one getting short extensions. It means for big businesses like HSBC, there will always be rogue elements.

What I take from this is what a few others have said. There have been a few businesses that have got a bit of a fright however I think they will come back and renew their strategy.

We are all technically IR35 compliant within our contracts and a lot of contracts are written to that extent. We are just switching liability. The other thing is IR35 has been rarely proven. The big Companies lawyers should be able to handle these cases (If it ever gets to that stage) with no problems.

And I know at least a whole team of contractors getting 6 months extensions at HSBC... only condition is not passing 31st of March 2020 until further notice!

[AnthonyQuinn]

That's what I think is going to happen as well. Companies don't know how contracting works at all so they will just switch from outside to inside without adjusting rates. The mediocre contractors will just take those rates or switch to a permanent role with a mediocre salary. Therefore, the rates/salaries will not increase right away.

Once things settle down and the companies realise they need to pay to get quality contractors, rates will increase. The question is: how long until this happens? I'd say no less than 6 months.

And what will the 'quality' contractors be doing till then? Wont they just have to accept the new terms on the same rates anyway? A 'quality' contractor should be having a higher rate to start with.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Landed a gig, SC required so going through that at the moment.

Always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when the dialogue is like this:

Agency: What's your rate?
Me: X
Agency: The client budget is only X-50 how would that sound?
Me: That is too low
Agency: Oh what's the lowest you would go
Me: X
Agency: Ok then, X it is

End client (government related) is probably paying X+200 or something and doesn't understand the benefits of fixed margin.

They also asked me after putting me forward if I'd be OK with working less than five days per week. After the interview it was discovered they never had any intention of it being a full time role. But I'm happy, cos SC clearance might open some doors, the rate isn't *too* bad, and I quite fancy the idea of working a bit less. Plus I can always go back to old gig to supplement days (good for IR 35 too proabably).