State of the Market

[coolhandluke]

I closed down my Ltd just after covid so around 4 years ago. On my second perm position, the latest being a FTC which has just been extended.

It's not that bad really, like the poster said before you just pay more tax which is I guess exactly what the government want.

[TheDude]

I closed down my Ltd just after covid so around 4 years ago. On my second perm position, the latest being a FTC which has just been extended.

It's not that bad really, like the poster said before you just pay more tax which is I guess exactly what the government want.

The thing is many contractors are morally opposed to paying more tax even they are netting more. They still can't get out of the mindset that the extra tax should somehow be going in their pocket.

[oliverson]

The thing is many contractors are morally opposed to paying more tax even they are netting more. They still can't get out of the mindset that the extra tax should somehow be going in their pocket.

Versus giving it to a government who p155es up against a wall?

[dx4100]

Versus giving it to a government who p155es up against a wall?

No versus you p155es up against a third holiday and new tesla. Public services are starved of funds thanks to 14 years of Tory mismanagement and decline.

[sadkingbilly]

The thing is many contractors are greedy and totally selfish. They still can't get out of the mindset that the extra tax should somehow be going in their pocket.

ftfy

[Sub]

Seems like IR35 reform is working well - many of the contractors, who previously claimed to be in some kind of "business" transitioning into permies and finding that this is working for them.

That is positive thing in the long run. First, more workers will be subjected to employment legislation, meaning more social contribution from employers and secondly there will be less supply on the contract market allowing contractors who actually running businesses to make decent living.

I hope we also see regulation on use of umbrellas - this is long overdue.

[dsc]

Seems like IR35 reform is working well - [...]secondly there will be less supply on the contract market allowing contractors who actually running businesses to make decent living.[...]

Well so far we've seen a massive reduction in outside roles and 95% of what is out there is inside but on crap rates, so worse than actual perm. Not sure this is positive for anyone running a business.

[SussexSeagull]

Seems like IR35 reform is working well - many of the contractors, who previously claimed to be in some kind of "business" transitioning into permies and finding that this is working for them.

That is positive thing in the long run. First, more workers will be subjected to employment legislation, meaning more social contribution from employers and secondly there will be less supply on the contract market allowing contractors who actually running businesses to make decent living.

I hope we also see regulation on use of umbrellas - this is long overdue.

That's all well and good but you don't get to decide if you are a genuine business or not anymore.

[Sub]

Well so far we've seen a massive reduction in outside roles and 95% of what is out there is inside but on crap rates, so worse than actual perm. Not sure this is positive for anyone running a business.

Those Inside roles with crap rates (many of them are actually Umbrella roles) only getting filled because overall weak demand for labor and there is not much competition for it. Once the overall situation will improve (and it will, no dip is infinite) there will not be many takers, so employers would need to either up the rate or offer roles as fixed term employment contracts. I hope that govt will have enough will to incentivize latter by curbing use of umbrellas (or ban them completely, who knows!). However, with PM defining "working people" as ones who "get their income from work", that is probably too nuanced to happen.

What unlikely to happen is return to widespread availability of Outside roles. There still will be market for niche skills, combined with right clearance and certifications, however with HMRC reportedly starting to police IR35 compliance, such roles will be relatively rare. And ones who going to stay in this market will need to run proper business operation (brand, marketing, service offerings, multiple clients) rather than sending CVs to agencies.

[Sub]

That's all well and good but you don't get to decide if you are a genuine business or not anymore.

Only thing that changed with the reform is that now employers face consequences of incorrect determination - the determination itself haven't changed a bit. Previously, employers could hire contract workers to spots normally occupied by employees and enjoy flexibility, lack of need of protecting employment rights, reduced risk of unionization, etc with zero tax risk.

If employers would want to hire "genuine businesses" they still would be doing it. Fact that most of the contracts are now offered inside proves the point about previously widespread "disguised employment".

Unfortunately, yes reform has consequences for many contractors who have been doing good for themselves for all those years, myself included. However, many of those contractors never been businesses as all they did was selling their labor, leaving all the product of their work to the client for a day rate. Same way as employee selling their labor to the employer for a wage.