State of the Market

[escapeUK]

One thing to consider. It might be less the state of the market, and more you (we) are now too old. One of my ex bosses who has remained a friend has found it incredibly hard to find a job despite being very intelligent, and having a great CV packed with experience.

I think a lot of us are around the 50ish mark, and I think 20 something HR are often thinking that's far too old. Hence why we see a perfect job for us, a 100% fit, apply for it and don't even get a reply.

I saw someone on YouTube, a contractor accountant, making this exact point the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9sNqm81jBg

[dsc]

One thing to consider. It might be less the state of the market, and more you (we) are now too old. One of my ex bosses who has remained a friend has found it incredibly hard to find a job despite being very intelligent, and having a great CV packed with experience.

I think a lot of us are around the 50ish mark, and I think 20 something HR are often thinking that's far too old. Hence why we see a perfect job for us, a 100% fit, apply for it and don't even get a reply.

I saw someone on YouTube, a contractor accountant, making this exact point the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9sNqm81jBg

I'm just over 40 and I'm tulipting myself thinking of job hunting in 2-3 years let alone 10yrs from now. I have a feeling experience simply means less and less these days and that most hiring managers thing anything can be thought on the job. I'd even go as far as saying around 40 is a good time to find a comfortable position in a big corp and cruise till retirement.

[OzzieExpat]

One thing to consider. It might be less the state of the market, and more you (we) are now too old. One of my ex bosses who has remained a friend has found it incredibly hard to find a job despite being very intelligent, and having a great CV packed with experience.

I think a lot of us are around the 50ish mark, and I think 20 something HR are often thinking that's far too old. Hence why we see a perfect job for us, a 100% fit, apply for it and don't even get a reply.

I saw someone on YouTube, a contractor accountant, making this exact point the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9sNqm81jBg

There are a number of factors age is one of them and if you are a white male then then you will be discriminated against. I am hoping to be all done by 55.

[sspt27]

One thing to consider. It might be less the state of the market, and more you (we) are now too old. One of my ex bosses who has remained a friend has found it incredibly hard to find a job despite being very intelligent, and having a great CV packed with experience.

I think a lot of us are around the 50ish mark, and I think 20 something HR are often thinking that's far too old. Hence why we see a perfect job for us, a 100% fit, apply for it and don't even get a reply.

I saw someone on YouTube, a contractor accountant, making this exact point the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9sNqm81jBg

It is something to consider. Or rather, something I've considered, constantly, late at night for the last 6 months. The trouble with "considering it" is that: there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. I can't make myself 35 again - except, I guess, in the physical fitness sense: I wouldn't go so far as to say "35", but I'm probably fitter than many 40yos.

"Lie" on the CV, to imply that I might not be the age I am? I've already removed 15 years of contracts, and removed the dates from my qualifications. Trouble is, I can't then say what is true: that I have 25 years' experience.

The overall impression I get, from exposing myself to the toxic sludge of job ads for the past 6 months, is that quite possibly experience is a disadvantage. Look at all those ads demanding knowledge of a zillion different technologies, in unrelated areas. It's not SQL + Oracle + [some ERP] + NoSQL + AWS, which would make sense. It's not Webdev + Java + Angular + .NET, which would also make sense. It's all of them, plus Python and a zillion TLAs I've never heard of. Oh, and deep knowledge of a specific industry, and residence in [somewhere I don't live and can't move to], and some very specific SC/DV clearance already. No-one, surely, is actually experienced in all of those.

Trouble is, over-exposure to this sludge is actually going a fair way to turning me into exactly the grumpy old, neophobic 50-something stereotpye HR may be imagining - a person I know I'm not really. The IT world, this old-man-shouting-at-clouds grumbles, has gone insane. He's not interested in learning any of this alphabet-soup new stuff, because no-one will even give him a chance to. Jog on, Grandpa!

I don't see a solution. I'm studying a TEFL teacher course, and applying for jobs as a supermarket van driver.

(EDIT: I would love to succeed in "doing what your username says"...)

[oliverson]

I'll be 57 at the end of this month and the thought occurs to me that the 12 month extension I recently signed, may well be the very last one, unless there's another one after that. WHEN it eventually comes to an end, that's it for me I think. At approaching 58, there is no way on earth that as a developer / devops type guy, I'll be approaching the market for more work. Fortunately the guys I'm currently working with are at the elder end of the spectrum so it's a good fit, but it will end.

I've not had an interview now for over 3 years (fortunately) and that was with these guys. My recollections of prior to that were Zoom interviews with young unprofessional people, casually dressed. I didn't hold a great opinion of them and I'm sure they're looking at me thinking they didn't want to work with somebody more than old enough to be their dad.

Whilst not a the same pay level, I can somehow relate to how professional footballers might feel when they realise their number is up and are forced to do something else. Though they would be a lot younger than 57. I guess just as we have done in our contracting careers, 're-inventing' ourselves, reskilling, etc., we must also do the same when our time as contractors is up.

[PCTNN]

I'd even go as far as saying around 40 is a good time to find a comfortable position in a big corp and cruise till retirement.

Bingo! Good age for contracting is 35-45, when you're still young enough to get interviews and yet experienced enough to make people think you're worth your day rate.

10 years of fruitful contracting, making a big dent in the mortgage balance, and then you just find a nice cushy senior/management permie job for a company with good benefits and ride it to retirement. Zero stress, zero f3cks.

[SussexSeagull]

I am a tester so trends tend to be a little bit slower to come and go but I suspect 50 my days in start ups might have come and go (not that I have seen any adverts for them of late now I think of it). That said I tend to contract with small to medium sized companies who buy into my 25 years experience and want someone who has been there and done that to help them through a busy period.

All of this said I started on green screen terminals and have worked at a company who had one of the few Google Glasses in Europe. Have gone from Waterfall (which didn't really have a name, it was just the way things were done) through to various flavours of Agile via a RAD cup-de-sac. Seen lots of development and test tools come and go.

Has software development actually become anymore streamlined or quicker in that time? Frankly, no. Every few years we seem to switch between dedicated project teams and having dedicated development. test etc. teams and it fundamentally doesn't make any difference to the end result.

Ride the wave as long as you can.

[escapeUK]

I'll be 57 at the end of this month and the thought occurs to me that the 12 month extension I recently signed, may well be the very last one, unless there's another one after that. WHEN it eventually comes to an end, that's it for me I think. At approaching 58, there is no way on earth that as a developer / devops type guy, I'll be approaching the market for more work. Fortunately the guys I'm currently working with are at the elder end of the spectrum so it's a good fit, but it will end.

Perhaps you could talk about having some sort of agreement having so many days a month as like a retainer or maintenance contract. Maybe other companies you worked for would love that too?

The reverse of the coin of thinking we are too old, is employing useless younger people with no skills and appalling work ethic. Unfortunately it seems businesses will do this until they are bust. There are many idiots employing other idiots. We see it in everything in our society where things just don't work anymore, because the experience and intelligence isn't there. Crowdstrike anyone? But even something completely opposite like the purchasers at M&S, seem to think their shoppers are young and sexy and want Victoria Secret underwear, when in actual fact its grannies who want comfie. And the grannies have lots of spend and the young are broke! Knowing your customer, long gone with the experienced staff.

[SussexSeagull]

Just had feedback from my interview on Friday and apparently my 'testing experience isn't modern enough'. To be fair I did trip over a technical question (admittedly on something that wasn't on the job description so was blindsided over) but both interviews were probably 30 and under.

[oliverson]

Perhaps you could talk about having some sort of agreement having so many days a month as like a retainer or maintenance contract. Maybe other companies you worked for would love that too?

The reverse of the coin of thinking we are too old, is employing useless younger people with no skills and appalling work ethic. Unfortunately it seems businesses will do this until they are bust. There are many idiots employing other idiots. We see it in everything in our society where things just don't work anymore, because the experience and intelligence isn't there. Crowdstrike anyone?......

I never said I had a good work ethic!!

Point taken on the retainer or part-time suggestions. I just feel when this is done, it's done and it's time to hang up my keyboard! I've been working since I was fifteen!!