Getting client agreements for other "perks" when rate rises are not on the table

[northernladuk]

Do some sandwich feedback, tell them you like the gig,.you see opportunities to deliver more value but you can't do 5 full days so will have to have one day at home but it would be great to continue to deliver to them and implement the ideas you have. If they agree and see the value they'll fall for their bluff and give you your day, I'd not they don't.

You've got to remember it's not really a negotiation. You've nothing to negotiate with. You want a day at home. That's it. You ain't gonna quit the gig and I think you'd be daft the threaten to walk. Christ, you've found a gig you don't constantly moan about and a client you Don't hate.

What's this BAU thing? I wouldn't be happy about that at all. I hope you've got a water tight schedule that adhere to to the letter. That just smacks of D&C for a start. Project work and when it's slow you can fill in with BAU. HMRC will have a field day with that one.

[psychocandy]

BAU?

I have to tread carefully with that too when client thinks support stuff or minor tweaks to a system is part of the wider project, when it's more about supporting a previous project or phase. Pure BAU (given tasks ad hoc that are not within a proper project boundary) would be well dodgy for IR35 as far as I know.




I know contractors that have managed to get WFH or a flexible Friday end and Monday start to make their lives a bit easier with a long commute or working away during the week.

Usually agreed before starting or at renewal. They have been prepared to not sign up or walk away if not getting some movement on it though.

Yes I know - BAU. Not cool but thats the way it is for me....

[psychocandy]

Very good.

One modification. "I'm not asking for an increase, because I know it's not in the budget. But you know I'm good enough for an increase, and I do, too. There's one way you can give me an increase without costing you a pound. I work from home one day a week, and that's worth quite a bit to me. If you need me in on Friday for some reason, I'll come in and just work the following Monday from home, so I'll be here if you need me, but it means I won't have to take that long commute every single day, and it costs you nothing extra. If you can't move on that, I'll probably have to look for a contract closer to home. The commute is just too much to do every day."

Of course, the big question is the second sentence, are you good enough and do they know it? And the next to last one -- are you ready to walk?

Sounds good. One thing that might go against is that client manager does same commute as me (same train a lot of the time!) so might not get much sympathy! (although he does occasionally WFH).

Yes I'm good enough and they know it. Would I walk - probably not....

[psychocandy]

Do some sandwich feedback, tell them you like the gig,.you see opportunities to deliver more value but you can't do 5 full days so will have to have one day at home but it would be great to continue to deliver to them and implement the ideas you have. If they agree and see the value they'll fall for their bluff and give you your day, I'd not they don't.

You've got to remember it's not really a negotiation. You've nothing to negotiate with. You want a day at home. That's it. You ain't gonna quit the gig and I think you'd be daft the threaten to walk. Christ, you've found a gig you don't constantly moan about and a client you Don't hate.

What's this BAU thing? I wouldn't be happy about that at all. I hope you've got a water tight schedule that adhere to to the letter. That just smacks of D&C for a start. Project work and when it's slow you can fill in with BAU. HMRC will have a field day with that one.

And you started so well on this reply as well lol. Yep I can only ask I guess and they can say yes or no.

No its an OK and OK client. So must be ok if I dont moan too much.

Yes BAU - I know. Thats just the way it is. Obviously, I'm at a higher risk than others who are project based but I know that. Fortunately, other things about the gig are pretty good for IR35 friendliness.

[SlipTheJab]

Do some sandwich feedback...

Compliment the PM on the quality of his mozzarella with sun dried tomatoes on Ciabatta, hopefully that will put him in a good mood and he'll give you a day WFH

[northernladuk]

And you started so well on this reply as well lol. Yep I can only ask I guess and they can say yes or no.

No its an OK and OK client. So must be ok if I dont moan too much.

Yes BAU - I know. Thats just the way it is. Obviously, I'm at a higher risk than others who are project based but I know that. Fortunately, other things about the gig are pretty good for IR35 friendliness.

Bearing in mind D&C is one of the main three pillars. The other is RoS which I bet will be a sham and MoO which sounds like its possibly an issue if you do BAU whilst waiting for the project work. Although MoO normally is an issue about work after the current schedule, the fact you have this overarching sham contract to cover everything you do (similar to an employment contract) MoO comes in to play. There is then part and parcel to consider with the time spent and then there is the fact they've got a permatractor doing the gig.

From the limited info given I'd say you are on some very dodgy ground there. Figures though.

[psychocandy]

Bearing in mind D&C is one of the main three pillars. The other is RoS which I bet will be a sham and MoO which sounds like its possibly an issue if you do BAU whilst waiting for the project work. Although MoO normally is an issue about work after the current schedule, the fact you have this overarching sham contract to cover everything you do (similar to an employment contract) MoO comes in to play. There is then part and parcel to consider with the time spent and then there is the fact they've got a permatractor doing the gig.

From the limited info given I'd say you are on some very dodgy ground there. Figures though.

It is what it is NLUK. Those of us who do support roles get this - its almost impossible to get away from completely. All you can do is do your best to distance yourself as far as you can.

D&C - to a certain extent in support roles this is unavoidable. With this client, its minimised though.

RoS - I would suggest its the same for a lot of roles not just support roles.

Moo - debatable. Although you seem to be suggesting that those of us in support roles are lessor contractors ;-)

To be honest, this role is not as bad as others I've done. There is a separation between what I do and what the permies do.

Lets just say IPSE membership is a no brainer. I would be stupid not to do this. Still might not help me if push came to shove but I'm betting theres a LOT of people in same situation as me.

[Danglekt]

I'm not going NLUK on you; it's understanding that you're a business and should act as one. If you don't, then make sure that you're accounting as a well as operating inside IR35.

I'm looking forward to the day when most IT contracts are work from MyCo site rather than Client site. I'll rent an office within walking distance of home and log in remotely rather than trekking miles across the country.

If you're struggling with commutes, perhaps contracting isn't for you?

I know times are tight lads, but every thread someone uses clumsy language they get told that "contracting isn't for you" - is the market that bad that we have to try and have digs at each other?

Give peas a chance.

[WordIsBond]

Sounds good. One thing that might go against is that client manager does same commute as me (same train a lot of the time!) so might not get much sympathy! (although he does occasionally WFH).

Yes I'm good enough and they know it. Would I walk - probably not....

You aren't asking for sympathy. If you ask for sympathy, you're dead in this negotiation. Sympathy is for people who go on JSA.

It's not sympathy, it's justice. You deserve more, they know it, they don't have more in the budget, they can make it up to you another way that costs them nothing. Whether the client manager does the commute is irrelevant to your business being underpaid for the services it provides, and their need to work with you accordingly.

You can even, if you really, really want to be nice, ask them to trial it for a month, and then if anything isn't working well, you can make adjustments. But I wouldn't start there, I'd just say that if you don't have the budget for an increase, I'd accept WFH once a week in lieu of an increase.

But if you aren't ready to back it up, you aren't negotiating from a position of strength. In which case, you'll probably always be a bad negotiator. Which is not the end of the world -- lots of happy people in the world aren't good negotiators. Some of those people are even relatively successful at what they do.

[northernladuk]

Moo - debatable. Although you seem to be suggesting that those of us in support roles are lessor contractors ;-)

I don't think they are lessor contractors, I just think the method of engagement is questionable in many cases. I think certain roles should be not supplied as an outside IR35 contract. It gets a bit if a bun fight when we start trying to say which is which but 1st line is obviously the most basic example. It's a perm job all be it for a shorter duration and a different engagement method. It also hacks me off that contractors try and fight IR35 when we have a raft of roles that are quite clearly within. Kinda ruins pur whole damn argument... But anyway.. Moving in

[quote ]
To be honest, this role is not as bad as others I've done. There is a separation between what I do and what the permies do..[/QUOTE]
Bad as in IR35 or bad as in just a crappy gig? I shudder to think what could be worse IR35 wise..