Client turned bandit....Debt collection

**northernladuk** · 19 January 2016, 11:02

What is your opt in/out status. If you have done it right they will have to pay you even without a signed time sheet.

Please don't wade in to the agent threatening to sue them. Most people that use the term 'sue' don't know what they are doing and are just using term to scare. Most people that know about being sued know it's just bluff and bluster. If you keep dunning them and talk about Late payment of commercial debts etc they will sit up and listen much quicker.

Write all the right letters. Request reasons for non payment and find out where the buck actually stops. When you've found out who you actually need to concentrate on then write some fairly stuff letters or better still call them and in the meantime find out about your opt in status and take it from there.

These situations rarely go legal so forget the sue option and do business first.

**seanraaron** · 19 January 2016, 11:04

When the dust settles it might be helpful to others to know who this client is so they know what to expect/can avoid...

It's not clear from the "no reason given" line, but is it possible it's just a miscommunication? Was the client agressive when confronted?

**Safe Collections** · 19 January 2016, 11:20

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

What is your opt in/out status. If you have done it right they will have to pay you even without a signed time sheet.

Please don't wade in to the agent threatening to sue them. Most people that use the term 'sue' don't know what they are doing and are just using term to scare. Most people that know about being sued know it's just bluff and bluster. If you keep dunning them and talk about Late payment of commercial debts etc they will sit up and listen much quicker.

Write all the right letters. Request reasons for non payment and find out where the buck actually stops. When you've found out who you actually need to concentrate on then write some fairly stuff letters or better still call them and in the meantime find out about your opt in status and take it from there.

These situations rarely go legal so forget the sue option and do business first.

In addition to NLUK's sage advice, we wouldn't recommend you mention winding up the agent if you want to resolve this amicably.

If you threaten to put them out of business you will likely lose any good will that remains and leave yourself with no other option but to pursue a legal claim. This will inevitably take longer and cost you more.

**Farmer jones** · 19 January 2016, 11:37

You say: "What is your opt in/out status. If you have done it right they will have to pay you even without a signed time sheet."

Can you explain this further ? I have opted out but am not sure exactly what you are referring to.

I don't think this is miscommunication, its an example or poor management. The CEO is a true bean counter, and I rather suspect that he is simply trying it on. He's got his report, and wants to save a few quid.

I take your point about suing the agency, I won't be following that line unless I ultimately have to. If there are other options, then I want hear about them, particularly the Opt out status mentioned.

I won't be disclosing the organisation. They don't need trashing because of a poor CEO.

FJ

**TheFaQQer** · 19 January 2016, 11:37

Originally posted by Farmer jones View Post

I have now left site (contract finished) and am escalating remotely via client IT Director, CEO & Agent. Ultimately my course of action will likely be sue the agent, as they know the work has been completed on time, once a suitable period has elapsed (to allow for late payment) etc.

Check the contract. Check the opt out status. Then follow the guidelines at payontime.co.uk and chase the agency (for that is who you have the contract with) for late payment once they breach the terms of the contract.

If you opted out correctly, and the contract says payment on production of signed timesheet, then you're a bit stuck really though.

Originally posted by Farmer jones View Post

Apart from the suing the agent, anyone know of a way of placing additional pressure on client CEO to sign off the timesheets ? (Apart from escalating to the Exec, although not sure if that will achieve anything as they don't run the org on a day to day basis).

I'd worry significantly about the executives not running the business - that would have set the alarm bells ringing from the very beginning.

Originally posted by Farmer jones View Post

From a reputation perspective, the client co would have a hell of a lot to loose, so that's the pressure point...... A winding up order did cross my mind, placed upon the agent, and the agent on the client co......

You'll need to sue, win and have them default on the payment - it's possible but I really don't think it's a smart thing to do.

**northernladuk** · 19 January 2016, 11:44

Some info here...

http://ukcontractors.org/agency-must...ned-timesheet/

**BrilloPad** · 19 January 2016, 12:00

What happened when the client first failed to sign timesheet? Why wait until 3 weeks worth of invoices outstanding?

**seanraaron** · 19 January 2016, 12:04

Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post

What happened when the client first failed to sign timesheet? Why wait until 3 weeks worth of invoices outstanding?

I was wondering that as well. If I found timesheets not getting signed/not getting paid I'd be inclined to inquire with the agency/put down tools if there was a real problem.

@northernlad: nice find. I had initially not done the opt-out until my umbrella company relayed a message from the agency saying I needed to do that. When I asked what it was about they gave that explanation of the agency thinking they were off the hook if a client went bust, but practically/legally speaking it wasn't true and just made them feel good. Kind of like having to click an EULA before you can install software.

**psychocandy** · 19 January 2016, 12:34

Originally posted by Farmer jones View Post

I don't think this is miscommunication, its an example or poor management. The CEO is a true bean counter, and I rather suspect that he is simply trying it on. He's got his report, and wants to save a few quid.

I take your point about suing the agency, I won't be fol

Not the first and won't be the last. CEO sees contractor leaving anyway so can't see any future need for him/her so thinks, hang on I can save £x by not paying the last few weeks. No hassle because he'll be gone.

Not unknown for client to suddenly, sometimes after years, find fault with last few weeks work. same reason.

I would agree opt out status is v important here. I also agree that its best not to get excited early doors and see whats developing. First step try to get timesheet signed, then if not mention to agent you're getting nowhere, then chuck in the invoice. Depends how client/agent reacts then as to next move....

I think agent/client will fancy their chances of not paying though if you did opt out.

Client turned bandit....Debt collection