Contracting risks...

[northernladuk]

One of the worst posts I have read in professional forums. Are you MF's sockie? Actually MF would post far better than that.

Ouch.. that's harsh!

Getting extra money is a perfectly acceptable business reason. In my experience from talking to people, clients do it just as often. I am expecting to be terminated any time - I was aware at the start my gig might be outsourced to Mumbai. I don't care - and I would happily do the same to them as well.

Well we will have to disagree on that one. I've seen many more contractors walk for better roles than I've seen clients get rid of contractors because they have no other choice.

Let's get this clear. I don't think you should never give notice. I'm sure I might be in a position to have to give notice when T&S hits but I work away so it will be completely unfeasible for me to carry on. When I do I'll post it here so everyone can have a pop.

I agree you start with a notice that termination may occur but you would expect it to be because the work has dried up, budget has run out or role has changed. All reasons the contract can simply not carry on. I don't expect to be binned because they found a contractor for £20 more or because they want someone that works a few miles away. They will have a business reason they have no choice. You can hardly say the reasons many contractors give are as black and white. Often it just comes down to a mercenary attitude.

In my last role I was permanent and got made redundant. My role was outsourced. Only 18 months before they were rolling out the red carpet for me. They could not get my skills. I had worked there for 10 years on and off as permanent and contract.

There is a cuddle icon and I am allowed to use it in prof so here you are..

You might live in a 1990s time bubble where companies can be trusted. Time has moved on. You need to move along, man up and get with the times. Or just stay where you - walking down to the corner shop in your cardigan, with your zimmer frame, to buy some wurthers original.

Is there a first timers guide wiki I can add this to? Then I can tell NLUK to read the first timers guide.

I would post certain emoticons in this thread which would sum up my feelings - but apparently there are unwritten rules on what emoticons can be used in professional forums.

BP
For the OP good luck!

Pop a pill before you pop a blood vessel. It can't be healthy...

All your opinions and I can respect them. I have a different view on them, probably not quite as black and white in real life as this is an internet forum but there you go. Arguing between us isn't going to achieve anything. There will always be a set of mercenaries that don't understand they are a supplier and will jump ship at the drop of a hat.

[BrilloPad]

Pop a pill before you pop a blood vessel. It can't be healthy...

Actually I was quite enjoying myself. Someone once said to me "they only reason you have not had a heart attack is you do not internalise your stress".

In my opinion (you might well disagree) I think you are too harsh on new comers.

Hopefully we can both agree it is a business decision and that emotions do not come into it? Sometimes it is better to take lower paid jobs and get consistent earnings? Maybe the OP will regret his decision and make different choices later?

Yesterday I saw my pension person for the first time in 7 years. He said "you have made so many screw ups in your personal life I am determined your pension pot will be the one successful thing for you".

Anyway - have a
And for pyschocandy too Its a Welsh love in!

[northernladuk]

Actually I was quite enjoying myself. Someone once said to me "they only reason you have not had a heart attack is you do not internalise your stress".

In my opinion (you might well disagree) I think you are too harsh on new comers.

You are not wrong there. I try not to be but I just keep falling back to old ways. Not my best attribute by a long chalk. Some of my past posts make me cringe when reading them not in the froth I was in when the post appeared. Maybe I'll mellow in my old age!

Hopefully we can both agree it is a business decision and that emotions do not come into it? Sometimes it is better to take lower paid jobs and get consistent earnings? Maybe the OP will regret his decision and make different choices later?

Totally on board with that.

Yesterday I saw my pension person for the first time in 7 years. He said "you have made so many screw ups in your personal life I am determined your pension pot will be the one successful thing for you".

Now there is some straight honest feedback. I could do business with a someone like that.

[billybiro]

Not bailing on his original client would have been doing things better.

HTH.

Why?

If his contract allows termination in such a way, and he's operating inside the terms of the contract (which is heavily implied, "I have given the notice to my current client"), he's done nothing wrong.

[billybiro]

Bless, you still think it's a level playing field between contractor and clientco.

It's only as "un-level" as you want to make it (or you believe it to be).

Does your local plumber cow down to whatever your demand-de-jour may be? No. Why not?

And before you tell me how "different" we are from plumbers, electricians etc. remember... He's a supplier and your the customer, aren't you? You need his skills, he needs money, doesn't he?

Come across as a subservient doormat and you're sure to be treated like one!

[MrMarkyMark]

Why?

If his contract allows termination in such a way, and he's operating inside the terms of the contract (which is heavily implied, "I have given the notice to my current client"), he's done nothing wrong.

Contractally wrong, no.

I guess my business and market is a little more niche than yours.
Everyone knows of each other and people wanting you personally, based on reputation, is everything.

Thats how I make my £££, yours and everyone elses model might be different.

I should add I have been doing my thing for years, also, it may be different if someone is some kind of general floating "role jockey".

Come across as a subservient doormat and you're sure to be treated like one!

Totally agree.

[billybiro]

Clients have notice periods in place as they expect you to honour the contract on the same terms as they do. They will only invoke notice when money runs out, work is finished or the contractor is crap.

Yes. Just look at all these clients honouring their original supplier contracts to completion!

[northernladuk]

Yes. Just look at all these clients honouring their original supplier contracts to completion!

Indeed. Some repeat offenders in there which is totally out of order but a very small percentage of all clients. Some of them on that list are one off's which were driven by market demand. If your business was losing 10's of millions per month what would you do? Keep paying contractors full whack? When it's that or potentially go bust then yes the suppliers come under the spot light.

The regular offenders do deserve everything they get. No arguments there.

[northernladuk]

What does strike me though is that here is a list of disgraceful contract breakers that we are all up in arms about and directing our anger at those clients... yet you are arguing it's ok for a contractor to give notice and no one can get upset about it...

You see the fail there?

They are on the list because what they do is not acceptable which is my whole point. Giving notice isn't the done thing... for all parties.

[LondonManc]

What does strike me though is that here is a list of disgraceful contract breakers that we are all up in arms about and directing our anger at those clients... yet you are arguing it's ok for a contractor to give notice and no one can get upset about it...

You see the fail there?

They are on the list because what they do is not acceptable which is my whole point. Giving notice isn't the done thing... for all parties.

Spot on. Most of the time parties enter a contract; one is paying for the other to complete a deliverable. As you say, that site names and shames. Who's to say clientco don't have a contractor name and shame list?