Day Trading

[BlasterBates]

Each and every indicator is lagging, except those which repaint themselves. I use MA to see the general direction, together with S/R levels to gauge the potential of the move.

There is no 100% foolproof method. Range trading is great for ranging market (surprise surprise!), but spikes and trends kill it fast. Personally I find trend trading (following) to be a better option, as then profit potential is much bigger (a stock can grow 100x in value, but range box is only that big). UK contractor is suggesting Elliot waves and Fibonacci - I think it's great only in hindsight, but of little help while situation is developing. Again, to each his own, if you can make it work - great.

Now I have moved to swing / position trading, I might keep my positions for a month or more. Regarding return I will say I have gained more experience than money. My personality is not best suited to this thing, I tend to go for a fast fix, just like a junkie, and battling this trait is my way to success - or to the next trait to battle Another thing I have found (again, speaking just for myself) is that having big trading account helps (think 100k and bigger) - people, myself including, get tired quickly when they have to follow some strategy for 10% yearly gains, if those 10% (while still very good result) means 50 quid. This tiredness leads to recklessness, attempts to make it big quick, and then some tears over lost money. Trading lets you meet your inner self in more than one way, be prepared. As I have said, no one went bancrupt because of a lagging indicator

Thx for that...

I've been investing in shares for a while, I make 10%, roughly, and all I do is have to sit there and watch it grow. I use the corrections to buy more shares. From what you say this is probably still the best way even though it's boring, compared to the daily excitement of "day trading".

Still I have an open mind, I don't feel the need to make pots of money unless I have technique or strategy that is consistent, i.e. either I day trade and confidently make a 100 perhaps 200 quid a day or I just stuff some more capital into Shell PLC or Gazprom.

However it's fun on the demo account trying different strategies.

[sirja]

Elliot Wave & Fibonacci Retracement are all you need for day trading. Master those in conjunction with each other but only lose money you can afford to throw away that belongs to you & no-one else!

Not so sure about Eliot Waves. I know some people swear by them, but seems to subjective to be consistently accurate.

[lukemg]

Thx for that...

I've been investing in shares for a while, I make 10%, roughly, and all I do is have to sit there and watch it grow. I use the corrections to buy more shares. From what you say this is probably still the best way even though it's boring, compared to the daily excitement of "day trading".

Still I have an open mind, I don't feel the need to make pots of money unless I have technique or strategy that is consistent, i.e. either I day trade and confidently make a 100 perhaps 200 quid a day or I just stuff some more capital into Shell PLC or Gazprom.

However it's fun on the demo account trying different strategies.

WHS.
Some terrifying posts on here for people looking in at this and thinking they can do it.
Even when it is reported 90% lose 90% in 90days.
Across any distribution, even by total luck you will get outliers, reducing the number who might have an edge even further.
In addition, any possible charting or trending you think can help will have been run to destruction by thousands of individuals and organisations spending millions to look for an edge. If one existed it would be arbitraged away. You really think you are the one who can spot the edge ??
You have got a snowballs chance in hell, but if you need to spend a few k to find this out, help yourself but consider using 90% in a global tracker and dumping 10% on this madness.
GLA

[BrilloPad]

I have seen nothing on this thread from SantaClaus. Well worth pinging him....

[BlasterBates]

Actually if you check out the hedge funds who are professional day traders and running their high frequency algorithms they make between 10-20%.

My "dead" portolio makes as much as they do from what I can see.

What they do achieve though is they're more consistent, they make a steady 10-20% whereas a "do nothing" portfolio goes up and down like a yo yo.

[lukemg]

Actually if you check out the hedge funds who are professional day traders and running their high frequency algorithms they make between 10-20%.

My "dead" portolio makes as much as they do from what I can see.

What they do achieve though is they're more consistent, they make a steady 10-20% whereas a "do nothing" portfolio goes up and down like a yo yo.

yeah course they do, which is why Warren Buffett bet one hedge fund that they couldn't beat the SP500 index in the US over 5 years after charges, they paid up early due to being so far behind...

[BrilloPad]

yeah course they do, which is why Warren Buffett bet one hedge fund that they couldn't beat the SP500 index in the US over 5 years after charges, they paid up early due to being so far behind...

The SP500 is not quite a do nothing. The components vary. Of course you can get an ETF or use some other mechanism.

[uk contractor]

Not so sure about Eliot Waves. I know some people swear by them, but seems to subjective to be consistently accurate.

For day trading they are essential but all these trading tools are only at best on average 60-70% accurate which is the big problem.


The professionals have massive leverage so take low risks & only need to make a few % a day consistently. Day trading is all about high risk as you will never have enough leverage or funds at your disposal hence why its often compared to throwing money away in a casino because unless your exceptionally skilled & are prepared to dedicate a lot of time to this you will eventually suffer massive losses.

[mrv]

2 very different things we are discussing here. One is a hedge funds, stuffed with the nearly brightest brains one could buy, managing billions of USD or EUR, using computers, algorithms etc we have zero chance to understand, trying to beat the market and other hedge funds. On the other hand we have us, situated leisurely at home in front of our dear laptop, managing our demo and small live accounts like pros that we are. Any strategy, any combination of indicators has been studied and analysed to death by those smart guys. If there is a way to predict market movements, those guys will find it, not us. We simply are too small and too stupid for that.

Still, even hedge funds struggle in the long term, this means market is so unpredictable and chaotic even the big guys have a little chance. This actually helps us, because it's a clear evidence success in this game lies not within indicators and patterns, but something else. We don't know what that is for sure, but we know discipline, patience, sound mind are parts of it. I suggest to everyone interested in trading to work on this "something else", there is our chance "to make it".

The most important aspect is longevity of our trading project. We see it is extremely difficult, even for professionals, to keep a steady income over time. Mistake many do is they look at a month's worth of demoing and say "geez, look at this sweet return I have achieved! I must be a pro!". No, you are not a pro, you are just lucky for now. It's a bit liek casino - if one puts some money on roulette and wins, he didn't find a way to beat the system, he just got lucky.

I realize my comments might be received as quite negative and discouraging by some, and I do apologise for it. I have seen (and have been one in my time) many people with bright eyes thinking they have found their way to the yachts and champagne, only to be bitterly dissapointed a few months later. Here I'm trying to warn you it's not all roses, reality is nowhere near as bright as they paint it in trading seminars.

[lukemg]

2 very different things we are discussing here. One is a hedge funds, stuffed with the nearly brightest brains one could buy, managing billions of USD or EUR, using computers, algorithms etc we have zero chance to understand, trying to beat the market and other hedge funds. On the other hand we have us, situated leisurely at home in front of our dear laptop, managing our demo and small live accounts like pros that we are. Any strategy, any combination of indicators has been studied and analysed to death by those smart guys. If there is a way to predict market movements, those guys will find it, not us. We simply are too small and too stupid for that.

Still, even hedge funds struggle in the long term, this means market is so unpredictable and chaotic even the big guys have a little chance. This actually helps us, because it's a clear evidence success in this game lies not within indicators and patterns, but something else. We don't know what that is for sure, but we know discipline, patience, sound mind are parts of it. I suggest to everyone interested in trading to work on this "something else", there is our chance "to make it".

The most important aspect is longevity of our trading project. We see it is extremely difficult, even for professionals, to keep a steady income over time. Mistake many do is they look at a month's worth of demoing and say "geez, look at this sweet return I have achieved! I must be a pro!". No, you are not a pro, you are just lucky for now. It's a bit liek casino - if one puts some money on roulette and wins, he didn't find a way to beat the system, he just got lucky.

I realize my comments might be received as quite negative and discouraging by some, and I do apologise for it. I have seen (and have been one in my time) many people with bright eyes thinking they have found their way to the yachts and champagne, only to be bitterly dissapointed a few months later. Here I'm trying to warn you it's not all roses, reality is nowhere near as bright as they paint it in trading seminars.

Could not agree more. Look I get it, virtually everyone looking at investing sees the possibilities and thinks yes, I can coin it here and starts chasing the magic (I bought options on 100,000 barrels of oil during a gulf war one time, US released massive reserves a week later and stuffed the price, cost me 5 grand)

Lots of people get shaken out by this or by their first bear market BUT if you can persist the snowball starts to build up momentum and eventually is feeding itself with dividends etc and you find yourself work optional, this feels fantastic.

If you just cant see it, then chase the rainbow with a small proportion, ALWAYS compare to a world tracker total return (FE trustnet has charts) to see if you beat a tracker and dont get carried away extrapolating from a short term lucky bounce up (OR down..)
Read everything on Monevator - It wont make sense to start with but eventually will.