Long Contracts

[northernladuk]

Anybody doing years in one contract is not a contractor in my opinion.

Hmm, I think I agree with what you are getting at but it's too general to agree with the statement. If you work on a two - three year global roll out or enterprise infrastructure transformation you could be there a considerable time carrying out one role. But yes, there are many situations in which I would agree people are part and parcel for sure.

I would question why clients don't think to get perm's in if they are big enough to run these types of projects but I aint complaining.

[unixman]

Hi nluk some of your answers make it sound as if you have gone through some IR35 challenge in the past is that so ?

Thanks to all by the way, this is a very helpful thread.

[northernladuk]

Hi nluk some of your answers make it sound as if you have gone through some IR35 challenge in the past is that so ?

Thanks to all by the way, this is a very helpful thread.

Not at all, quite the opposite. I've just spent a lot of time reading up on IR35, understanding it and comments from others on here, and spend a lot of time (maybe too much needlessly) to make absolutely sure I'm covered. Some people have probably quite fairly accused me of going over the top protecting myself when it's unlikely to get investigated and very difficult to fail, particularly with insurances but that's my call. IR35 is about being in business so you learn a lot of other things about your business in the meantime.

You will find many other posters know a lot more than me. The FaQQer, Mal and others. They just don't feel the need to go on about it as much as I do. By doing this they also don't make themselves look as bloody stupid as I do.. not that they are stupid.. oh jesus.. You get my meaning.

[BlasterBates]

Agree with the above. When you are with an organisation for 6 months it's fairly easy to demonstrate you're not part of their organisation. You don't know enough about their systems to be able to sort out the day to day problems, so you develop something new and no-one bothers you until your bit is done. I reckon after 2 years you have a big problem with IR35. My experience is your PM is asking to do things several times a day, sorting out operational problems and generally helping out as you by then you know their systems inside out.

Personally if I were to do a longterm project longer than a year or two, and I would count any banking contract in that category, I would accept I would be inside and have done with it, or at least expect to get "wacked" and hope for the best, i.e. they don't get round to investigating you.

If you're hopping from project to project every few months I think you're fairly safe.

I think it's feasible to work longterm for one client and remain outside IR35 but the reality is most clients see you as a temporary employee and treat you like a temp, but for a few months you "look like" a real contractor.

[northernladuk]

Interesting thing is we do have one of our regular posters who has been touched by IR35 and I seem to think that he often comments that all this talk about theory is pointless and didn't apply to his case to the theory didn't match the practice.

I do think that could be due to case details and also a lot of this is about batting off an IR35 case BEFORE it starts. Once you are up to your eyes in it everything could look different. My plan is to respond to the first communication with a comprehensive response covering all the aspects they may take in to account when targeting me and letting them chew it over. (I mean QDOS or IPSE's people but you know what I mean). I don't want to get to the point where HMIT is ringing my client etc.

[TheFaQQer]

Anybody doing years in one contract is not a contractor in my opinion.

It depends what you do, surely?

My current client is going through a migration between Oracle eBusiness Suite and Peoplesoft for a global organisation covering multiple legislative requirements for somewhere in the region of 90000 employees.

You aren't going to do that in less than a year. Particularly with this project management team...

[Goatfell]

Anybody doing years in one contract is not a contractor in my opinion.

[pedant]Depends whether you are a BOS contractor or a business, if the contract is a very profitable one, why turn it down for the sake of a title or fretting about HMRC [/pedant]

...but I do see where you're coming from, the gunslinger blows into town, sorts out the Clantons then rides off into the sunset with saddle-bags full of cash sort of image (what's not to like about that)

[Gaz_M]

I think the very basis of contracting is to go onsite to do a particular piece of work and then move on. I agree that piece of work could take weeks, months or even a year or two but anymore I just wouldn't believe.

There are people in my current gig who have been here 5+ years and they are part of the furniture. One even orders the office stationery and gives out car park permits. When I speak to them they have no understanding of IR35 or even the two year rule.

I do wish HMRC would target these people and leave those of us who understand the system and move on (even if offered extensions) alone.

[northernladuk]

I think the very basis of contracting is to go onsite to do a particular piece of work and then move on. I agree that piece of work could take weeks, months or even a year or two but anymore I just wouldn't believe.

There are people in my current gig who have been here 5+ years and they are part of the furniture. One even orders the office stationery and gives out car park permits. When I speak to them they have no understanding of IR35 or even the two year rule.

I do wish HMRC would target these people and leave those of us who understand the system and move on (even if offered extensions) alone.

Totally agree. I've got a long list of soft targets ready just in case HTC coming knocking and are willing to do a deal and go look in more profitable places

Remember though as well as being a contractor you are also a business. Many businesses have long engagements with clients. If you deploy a piece of work that takes a year or two and become an SME wouldn't it be wise to leverage that knowledge to secure more work? But yes, easy to become part and parcel while you are doing it.

[BolshieBastard]

[pedant]Depends whether you are a BOS contractor or a business, if the contract is a very profitable one, why turn it down for the sake of a title or fretting about HMRC [/pedant]

Hahaha! Wait until HMRC start sniffing around with first a compliance review that develops into a full blown IR35 investigation then come back and ask about 'fretting.'

You may be fortunate and be found outside IR35 but I'll wager the worry not to mention the hoops you'll be made to jump through will change you point of view. And at that point, the very profitable contract may not look so profitable after all.