Contract negotiation query...

[SpontaneousOrder]

and seen as a core part of the staff... in other words, almost a job for life type thing.

This is actually a bad thing.

[Pondlife]

Thanks for all the replies so far...

Their other view is that I am on a longer term contract (6 months, expected to renew to 12) and seen as a core part of the staff... in other words, almost a job for life type thing. I understand some part of them as we have a good working relationship, but then having 2 weeks notice negates that altogether.

My initial response was to renew for a few months only in order to get my ducks in a row for a new opportunity...

Why not ask them to employ you as a permie @ £65K plus all the perks you're LEGALLY entitled to.

[northernladuk]

It sounds to me as though they view you as a permie (on a fixed-term contract w/o permie benefits), so you should be very worried on that front. All this crap about benchmarking to permie rates is exactly that, crap.

Sounds like this to me. I'd read up on fixed term contracts and see if this is indeed what they are pushing. There are some government pages on what it is and the rights you have with it etc. Google will dig them out for you.

[jmo21]

Thanks for all the replies so far...

Their other view is that I am on a longer term contract (6 months, expected to renew to 12) and seen as a core part of the staff... in other words, almost a job for life type thing. I understand some part of them as we have a good working relationship, but then having 2 weeks notice negates that altogether.

My initial response was to renew for a few months only in order to get my ducks in a row for a new opportunity...

Either they are taking you a ride, or are genuinely stupid with the rate to permie comparison.

As for their contract length opinion.... you'll be out the door as soon as the budger tightens. Contract length is never guaranteed, so irrelevant in any discussion like this.

If you were comparing 2 contract offers, then you might use contract length as one of many factors in choosing between the 2.

[AMH]

sounds like they want to screw you.
if they want to compare £65000, then they should take into consideration holidays, etc.
assuming they have done 65000 / 52 = £1250 a week /5 = £250 a day

But what about statutory bank holidays? or if you want time off?
Better calculation would be 65000 / 46 / 5 = £280 a day & thats ignoring all the extra expense of accountancy fees, Employee NI, etc.

[avgjoe]

Either they are taking you a ride, or are genuinely stupid with the rate to permie comparison.

As for their contract length opinion.... you'll be out the door as soon as the budger tightens. Contract length is never guaranteed, so irrelevant in any discussion like this.

If you were comparing 2 contract offers, then you might use contract length as one of many factors in choosing between the 2.

Thanks - the permie comparison only came up yesterday hence my posting here as I was a little confused by it all.

I do accept I've been very naive though and that only I can rectify it all by being stronger. I stuck with it for a while as (1) they restructured and laid off permies but kept me and (2) had some family issues to deal with. So it is also my fault for not acting earlier.

[TheFaQQer]

Thanks for all the replies so far...

Their other view is that I am on a longer term contract (6 months, expected to renew to 12) and seen as a core part of the staff... in other words, almost a job for life type thing. I understand some part of them as we have a good working relationship, but then having 2 weeks notice negates that altogether.

My initial response was to renew for a few months only in order to get my ducks in a row for a new opportunity...

They see you as a permie - make sure your IR35 insurance is up to date.

If they are saying that you are a core part of the staff, then they need to increase your rate to £450 a day to cover the additional tax and NI that you are going to have to pay, in the same way they would for a £65k permie.

Either get on their payroll, or leave before it gets any worse.

[jamesbrown]

seen as a core part of the staff... in other words, almost a job for life type thing.

Have you even heard of IR35? I hope that you're paying yourself appropriately. The above may be circumstantial, but it's very strong circumstantial evidence that neither you nor the client perceive this relationship to be one of independent contractor and client, but one of employee and employer. Since working practices are paramount, you'd have a hard time arguing anything to the contrary.

[northernladuk]

I've a feeling the Op doesn't have a clue.

[Sausage Surprise]

OK, just to clarify I was never, ever on 65k perm. I started out at around 230 p/d and now am being offered 247 (they see it the same as 65k for a permie, not even sure how thats relevant though). I stuck with the job as they were a flexible company and I had a bereavement in the family that I had to sort out.

I've been arguing my case for 6 months, only to be told their evaluation of me is that 247 is fair rate. Although not senior, I'm a valuable part of their team (their words), have worked through many challenging circumstances and never say no/kick up a fuss - so definitely not a clock watching mug

Now, I just don't understand how best to explain to them that they are way under, esp. when they seem so confident that they're right?

It's called negotiation and you must be prepared to walk.