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Oh who guessed it the remainers made it up!

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    #21
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    It's a bad assumption to think that immigration/jobs is a zero sum game. It's not. More immigrants is more people to do work, but also boosts the economy so there are more jobs.
    To be frightened of immigrants taking all the jobs is ignorance and a bit of racism (your competing with natives for the jobs already so why does the fact that some are immigrants make any difference?). Ignorance and racism go hand in hand.
    Have a search for Gate Gourmet. Here established workers of Indian heritage were supplanted by cheaper eastern European labour. The ladies were Earning £10 an hour plus overtime, their replacements were earning the minimum wage at the time £8.

    So their wages were 20% lower and thanks to Tony & Gordon, we will subsidise that with in work benefits.

    So wages were lowered and of course the tax take falls.

    How does the lower wage with subsidies effectively increase GDP per capita rather than dilute it?

    You know that the point the average person pays more tax than they cost is about £30k, the closer we can get people to earning that the less others have to subsidise them.

    The more available labour there is the lower the average wage will be.


    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by vetran View Post

      Have a search for Gate Gourmet. Here established workers of Indian heritage were supplanted by cheaper eastern European labour. The ladies were Earning £10 an hour plus overtime, their replacements were earning the minimum wage at the time £8.

      So their wages were 20% lower and thanks to Tony & Gordon, we will subsidise that with in work benefits.

      So wages were lowered and of course the tax take falls.

      How does the lower wage with subsidies effectively increase GDP per capita rather than dilute it?

      You know that the point the average person pays more tax than they cost is about £30k, the closer we can get people to earning that the less others have to subsidise them.

      The more available labour there is the lower the average wage will be.

      that's one example. And there will always be outlier cases.

      In any case....
      Tax subsidies for lower wages are wrong. Maybe a much higher minimum wage is the answer. Either way it's not immigration that is the root cause, it's a skewed system.
      Can't even blame the employers. They are just doing what is right for the company.
      See You Next Tuesday

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by Lance View Post

        that's one example. And there will always be outlier cases.

        In any case....
        Tax subsidies for lower wages are wrong. Maybe a much higher minimum wage is the answer. Either way it's not immigration that is the root cause, it's a skewed system.
        Can't even blame the employers. They are just doing what is right for the company.
        I am all for controlled immigration. If we can get brilliant doctors, professors, businessmen (even aTw) and scientists from other countries it will improve the UK for all. We can send ours over there as well.

        Getting cheap waiters, cleaners and baristas to undercut the existing ones who will be replaced by apps, kiosks or automation and then need benefits in a decade doesn't look so clever.

        Look it seems the Pandemic & Brexit have limited immigration, there is a shortage of bar staff and guess what the pay has gone up

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...age-staff.html

        Rivals, both small and large, reckon they’ll be looking pretty hard, since almost all of them are also desperately seeking new staff.

        In London and the South East, where the shortage is most acute, the going rate for waiters has already risen from around £11 to almost £15 an hour, plus tips, while some kitchen staff are commanding salaries a third higher than before Covid struck.

        ‘Wages are going through the roof,’ James Chiavarini, owner of Il Portico, London’s oldest family restaurant, says. ‘I have chefs who usually would be on about £35k and they are now saying, “We want 50”.

        ‘Getting new people is impossible. I can’t hire new staff to open a place that I am launching in June. You advertise and they arrange to come for an interview, but a day or two later they get in touch and say: “Sorry, I’ve already got a job.”’
        lets hope this continues elsewhere and minimum wage is a distant memory.
        "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

        I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by vetran View Post

          Look it seems the Pandemic & Brexit have limited immigration, there is a shortage of bar staff and guess what the pay has gone up
          Back in my youth (pre-EU freedom of movement) it was the Aussies and Kiwis coming over on 2 year visas which kept the hospitality industry going. I don't know whether the visas have been stopped, or if the Aussies can't get the jobs they used to get because the Europeans got them first, so they stopped coming over here. Whatever the answer, we should be encouraging Antipodeans back. Our youth should have the same opportunities to try it on with an Aussie barmaid.
          His heart is in the right place - shame we can't say the same about his brain...

          Comment


            #25
            About a year after I emigrated, I went into a Swiss bar in a non-descript fairly industrial town - the barmaid was from Melbourne... They get everywhere!
            Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
              About a year after I emigrated, I went into a Swiss bar in a non-descript fairly industrial town - the barmaid was from Melbourne... They get everywhere!
              OH Aussie barmaids I remember lusting after those.

              It seems we changed the immigration rules and the wages dropped in real terms compared to home.

              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25401024

              Now they are abandoning the UK in their thousands. The number of Australian working visas issued by the Home Office has more than halved since 2006 to fewer than 15,000, while the ONS reported a drop of almost 10,000 Australians resident in the UK in the year between 2011-12.
              The visa regime Doyle describes stems from government changes to the system in 2011 which abolished the general visa category under which many Australians had applied, introduced a cap of 20,700 on the number who could be sponsored by UK employers, and permitted a further 1,000 only of those with "exceptional talent".

              "As the Australian dollar is now worth much more, Aussies don't have to work here so much to travel Europe for a summer, after which it's much more tempting to return home where they can easily be paid twice as much for doing the same work."
              "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

              I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by vetran View Post

                OH Aussie barmaids I remember lusting after those.

                It seems we changed the immigration rules and the wages dropped in real terms compared to home.

                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25401024





                Quoting a 7 year old article

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by Eirikur View Post

                  Quoting a 7 year old article
                  Well that would be when the change happened. Its called News when its new and history when its old. In between one can reference old articles.

                  "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

                  I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

                  Comment

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