I hope this guy is wrong about our future

[meridian]

I hope this guy is wrong about our future

I'll ask again, who was picking the fruit before the UK joined the EU and for that matter, any of the other jobs that non UK nationals are doing?

What was the rate of pay for those jobs, compared to the national average wage at the time? What was the rate of pay compared to (eg) university fees? What were the expectations from the farmers for regular labour and not the odd week or weekend here and there? What was the quality of produce like? What were the expectations from purchasers on undamaged fruit/veg (ie requiring care from experienced pickers and not just students there for the weekend that couldn’t give a toss)? What were the volumes of fruit/veg requiring pickers?

Whatever year you’re seeking to compare to, remember that there were very different economic factors at play at that time.

[DaveB]

I'll ask again, who was picking the fruit before the UK joined the EU and for that matter, any of the other jobs that non UK nationals are doing?

The ones that are now working in call centres and service industry jobs. Our economy has moved on in the last half century. Manual labour is no longer a mainstay for local employment. Better education and the rise of the service sector has moved people away from labour intensive jobs. Why slog your guts out for minimum wage in a muddy field or sweltering heat when you could be answering phones in a comfortable air-conditioned office. The reason we have oversees workers doing the jobs is that UK nationals don't want to and don't need to.

[JohntheBike]

The ones that are now working in call centres and service industry jobs. Our economy has moved on in the half century. Manual labour is no longer a mainstay for local employment. Better education and the rise of the service sector has moved people away from labour intensive jobs. Why slog your guts out for minimum wage in a muddy field or sweltering heat when you could be answering phones in a comfortable air-conditioned office. The reason we have oversees workers doing the jobs is that UK nationals don't want to and don't need to.

yes, accepted, but if those manual jobs paid better, then things might change. Our society works on supply and demand.

My grandfather was a miner who spent most of his working life cutting coal in 18 inch seams 1000 ft below the surface, with no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays. He was determined that my father would have a better job. My father became a bricklayer and had to work outside in all weathers, with no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays. My father was determined that I would have a better job. In his way, he gave me a better education than he had and I had a better job, with a pension, sick pay and paid holidays. Tables have turned now. Anyone with building trade experience can improve their situation, especially if they can build or renovate houses. Many can make much more money than I can as a contractor and now that I have no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays, ironically, I seem to be much better off than I was when I enjoyed those benefits.

Times can change.

[JohntheBike]

What was the rate of pay for those jobs, compared to the national average wage at the time? What was the rate of pay compared to (eg) university fees? What were the expectations from the farmers for regular labour and not the odd week or weekend here and there? What was the quality of produce like? What were the expectations from purchasers on undamaged fruit/veg (ie requiring care from experienced pickers and not just students there for the weekend that couldn’t give a toss)? What were the volumes of fruit/veg requiring pickers?

Whatever year you’re seeking to compare to, remember that there were very different economic factors at play at that time.

yes, agreed

[DaveB]

yes, accepted, but if those manual jobs paid better, then things might change. Our society works on supply and demand.

My grandfather was a miner who spent most of his working life cutting coal in 18 inch seams 1000 ft below the surface, with no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays. He was determined that my father would have a better job. My father became a bricklayer and had to work outside in all weathers, with no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays. My father was determined that I would have a better job. In his way, he gave me a better education than he had and I had a better job, with a pension, sick pay and paid holidays. Tables have turned now. Anyone with building trade experience can improve their situation, especially if they can build or renovate houses. Many can make much more money than I can as a contractor and now that I have no pension, sick pay nor paid holidays, ironically, I seem to be much better off than I was when I enjoyed those benefits.

Times can change.

Don't confuse builders and associated trades with essentially unskilled manual labor. Builders, plumbers, electricians, plasterers are all skilled trades that take time to learn and in some cases become formally certified for.

Times can change, yes, but your example stretches over three generations. The problem is with us here and now.

Even if farmers put up wages to attract UK national to do the jobs, the chances are they will end up losing money as supermarkets won't want to absorb all the costs and we will all end up paying more at the checkouts.

Add to that the fact that un-employment is already at it's lowest since 1975 and the chances are you won't get anyone to do the job anyway.

[JohntheBike]

Don't confuse builders and associated trades with essentially unskilled manual labor. Builders, plumbers, electricians, plasterers are all skilled trades that take time to learn and in some cases become formally certified for.

Times can change, yes, but your example stretches over three generations. The problem is with us here and now.

Even if farmers put up wages to attract UK national to do the jobs, the chances are they will end up losing money as supermarkets won't want to absorb all the costs and we will all end up paying more at the checkouts.

Add to that the fact that un-employment is already at it's lowest since 1975 and the chances are you won't get anyone to do the job anyway.

you could be right. Only time will tell.