Second referendum (split from the gammons thread)

[meridian]

Not really because the result of the advisory vote was to leave the EU and we haven't done that yet. The results didn't say least discuss this for the next 3 years, maybe 4 or 5, and do **** all.

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That’s literally what advisory means. Apart from the do **** all bit, what’s meant to happen is that he advice is taken on board, discussed, analysed, and then an appropriate response issued.

Which might be leaving the EU. Or it might be addressing the underlying reasons for the vote within the country.

[Yorkie62]

....

Which might be leaving the EU. Or it might be addressing the underlying reasons for the vote within the country.

And we have so far done nothing of those two things. Certainly not the latter at the muppets are still MPs

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[meridian]

And we have so far done nothing of those two things. Certainly not the latter at the muppets are still MPs

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No, I certainly agree with that. The result was an opportunity to open up discussions with the people (and even from a “leave EU” perspective it might have cemented ideas in “how” to leave) but our politicians are cowards at heart - Cameron and the Tories wouldn’t have liked what they heard, so they’ve carried on for three years with their fingers in their ears.

[woohoo]

It was advisory. If you wanted it to be binding, you should have said so before the referendum.

Given that the country has discussed little else for the last three years, the advisory vote has been respected.

It is advisory and I think most people understand this. I think is a sad sorry state of affairs to use this argument though.

The one thing it has highlighted to me is the incompetence of politicians and the self serving nature of many of them, it's more dire than I had thought. When you start to question the competence and integrity of those that make our laws then I do worry about the final outcome and damage to our democracy. I suppose that's the big issue when you ignore something like a referendum.

[meridian]

It is advisory and I think most people understand this. I think is a sad sorry state of affairs to use this argument though.

I don’t think most people do understand this, though. Unfortunately the confusion over this stems from the same politicians that are meant to be guiding the people - on the one hand they argued in Parliament (and set the referendum legislation) for it to be advisory, and on the other hand claimed and continue to claim that it “must be respected” .

The one thing it has highlighted to me is the incompetence of politicians and the self serving nature of many of them, it's more dire than I had thought. When you start to question the competence and integrity of those that make our laws then I do worry about the final outcome and damage to our democracy. I suppose that's the big issue when you ignore something like a referendum.

While I agree with the first bit (incompetence of our politicians), you can hardly claim that the referendum has been ignored. For better or for worse, the country has done very little else for three years except discuss the referendum.

[woohoo]

I don’t think most people do understand this, though. Unfortunately the confusion over this stems from the same politicians that are meant to be guiding the people - on the one hand they argued in Parliament (and set the referendum legislation) for it to be advisory, and on the other hand claimed and continue to claim that it “must be respected” .




While I agree with the first bit (incompetence of our politicians), you can hardly claim that the referendum has been ignored. For better or for worse, the country has done very little else for three years except discuss the referendum.

I think most people understand it's advisory, it was said enough times. But people do expect the outcome to be respected.

Fair point about ignored. But the government and parliament for whatever personal or political reasons have ignored the directive from the referendum to leave.

I think it's also worth pointing out, if an agreement was not reached the Tory government promised to leave with a no deal (this was in their general election mandate). A deal has not been reached, we should have left without a deal.

[meridian]

I think most people understand it's advisory, it was said enough times. But people do expect the outcome to be respected.

Fair point about ignored. But the government and parliament for whatever personal or political reasons have ignored the directive from the referendum to leave.

I think it's also worth pointing out, if an agreement was not reached the Tory government promised to leave with a no deal (this was in their general election mandate). A deal has not been reached, we should have left without a deal.

Well there you go again. Are you deliberately contradicting yourself?

The Conservative manifesto didn’t explicitly promise to leave with no deal. It says that they continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal, but that they were committed to getting the best deal for Britain.

[BlasterBates]

The fact is that Leavers don't really want to leave as they revel in the anger and betrayal recriminations. Quite a number of Brexiteer MPs voted against the withdrawal agreement for that very reason.

[Yorkie62]

I think most people understand it's advisory, it was said enough times. But people do expect the outcome to be respected.

Fair point about ignored. But the government and parliament for whatever personal or political reasons have ignored the directive from the referendum to leave.

I think it's also worth pointing out, if an agreement was not reached the Tory government promised to leave with a no deal (this was in their general election mandate). A deal has not been reached, we should have left without a deal.

AS TM always said

a) -"No Deal is better than a Bad Deal" - So JC's version of Brexit is not a Bad deal afterall despite the Tory's not voting for it in the indicative votes, and

wiat for it....you know whats coming....

b) we will be leaving the EU on the 29th march - or something along those lines, now what happened there????????

As has already been said on this thread our MPs are basically cowards and unable to act upon their own words and promises to the electorate.

[BlasterBates]

The Brexit movement is slowly falling apart. The pro-Brexit protest march was "small".