Theresa survives - badly wounded though

[Old Greg]

If they are less than 48% then surely we should treat them as traitors and saboteurs

And enemies of the folk.

[Whorty]

No deal leavers are a minority and therefore should be legitimately ignored.

If they are less than 48% then surely we should treat them as traitors and saboteurs

[Old Greg]

and whilst we are at it we (the 'royal' we) can apply the same rules to any minority.

Your immediate concern should be that the second reading of the Mental Capacity (Amendment) Bill is scheduled for Tuesday in the Lords.

[meridian]

Isn't that what democracy is about. You give people the available choices on how to leave the EU. Present the arguments for both, and let them vote.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

Sure. Show me where in the Leave campaign that it was laid out clearly just how we would leave the EU; that leave meant No Deal. Ironically, it was presented that way by the Remain campaign but dismissed as "Project Fear".

I can show you plenty of positive rhetoric from the Leave campaign (easiest deal in history, would be mad to leave the single market, they need us more than we need them, etc). Show us anything from the Leave campaign pre-referendum that is in the slightest bit honest about any negative consequences of leaving.

Is that what democracy is about? Only golden promises to secure a vote, and then damn the consequences later?

[Yorkie62]

No deal leavers are a minority and therefore should be legitimately ignored.

and whilst we are at it we (the 'royal' we) can apply the same rules to any minority.

[Whorty]

You are missing the point - they people of the Uk voted to leave.

All those who opposed it have all had their chance to say how much of a bad idea that was, to call all the people who voted Brexit cretins and to throw their toys out of the pram - which they have all done.

However they have had that chance, they have had their say, and we all said ok well thanks for the input - however now they need to shut up and do the best they can for the UK population.

Maybe I'm missing the point as you're not explaining who 'they' are.

I don't think any MPs are throwing their toys out the pram, except for the ERG who are cretins who are only in it for their own personal gain.

Labour are doing what the opposition always do - they oppose! It's their job. This could have been avoided if the Tories had put together a cross party Brexit group but they didn't.

Who are 'they' that had a chance to have their say? What do you mean by "do the best they can for the UK population?".

If you mean the May deal is the best and MPs should vote it through, as I say, I would agree. Problem is, during the last GE the UK people voted in to the commons majority remain MPs to represent them. These MPs are therefore never going to vote through a no deal scenario. If the UK people wanted a crash out style leave, they should have voted UKIP - the UKIP vote collapsed in the GE so clearly the UK people did not want a no deal WTO Brexit.

Ergo, democracy has given us a 'leave' direction, to be negotiated by a Tory government. The Tories have obtained a leave deal. I don't get why Brexiters therefore don't accept this as this is the will of the people. You won, you have a leave deal, enjoy your victory.

[Old Greg]

No deal leavers are a minority and therefore should be legitimately ignored.

Every faction is a minority. There probably needs to be a single transferrable vote in a second referendum, unless parliament can work this through in a similar manner. Either way it would probably land on EFTA / EEA.

[BlasterBates]

No deal leavers are a minority and therefore should be legitimately ignored.

[Old Greg]

You are missing the point - they people of the Uk voted to leave.

All those who opposed it have all had their chance to say how much of a bad idea that was, to call all the people who voted Brexit cretins and to throw their toys out of the pram - which they have all done.

However they have had that chance, they have had their say, and we all said ok well thanks for the input - however now they need to shut up and do the best they can for the UK population.

1 Why should people shut up in a free society?
2 What if the best they can do for the UK population is to argue to remain in the EU, or to join EFTA and remain in the EEA.

[Whorty]

I dont think it changes anything at all, we will still be leaving at the end of March without anything agreed. There is no way this can be reversed now with the state of the parliament.

And the conservative membership which is probably about 75% leave will start an insurrection if she tries to push through some kind of humiliating fudge. I think the ERG know this, they probably expected to lose.

Not correct ... there are roughly 500 MPs who don't support a no deal crash, and roughly 150 who do (or might do). Parliament can choose to vote on taking no deal off the table. If they do this (and this is what Labour are pushing for) then it follows that as we get closer to March, if there is still not an agreed deal on the table then either A50 is revoked or extended.

Without a 2nd ref I don't believe many MPs will want to revoke A50, so most likely scenario is A50 is extended. This may then lead into a GE (with a break off Tory party led by Nigel?).

Don't forget, this is not all about the Tories. Labour need the SNP and the smaller parties if they want to form a government, Labour are controlled by unions, none of these want a crash out no deal. Parliament therefore has a majority for a deal of sorts.