Crap deal will fail parliament, new referendum coming: vote Real Brexit!

[GJABS]

Are you saying that the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent referendum (notice the order) which was voted for by 71% and against by 29% is the reason the IRA "have defeated us"
Or are you saying that the Brexit referendum and subsequent draft agreement is the reason the IRA "have defeated us".

For the first one, the politicians who carried out the negotiations and the voters have accepted responsibility.
For the second one, the voters are blaming the politicians that were not involved in the negotiations and blaming the other side.

The people who voted for Brexit are the ones that are democratically responsible for the current situation. Not the EU, not those who voted against. It's a democracy.

The two together yes.

The voters didn't think it through, not unsurprisingly. Indeed those on the DUP side who were, I understand, opposed the GFA, were remiss in not seeing the potential problems it created in regard to a possible future Brexit; they should have seen the problem and should have brought it to the attention of the electorate there.

p.s. it is 20 years since the ending of civil war in Northern Ireland. I wonder whether, if the UK brought back a hard border to Northern Ireland, there would be a return to violence? I suspect there would not be, as fewer people on both sides are as religious as they were then, and fewer people care about politics as much, especially the younger generation.

[shaunbhoy]

Pray tell how we can get better than we have today?

We can get better than we have today by refraining from negotiating bent over with our pants down.

By telling the EU that we do not accept this deal and that we are prepared to walk away and then start renegotiating once we have left if needs be, and that they can whistle for the 39Bn they imagine they are getting for their "divorce".
That ought to focus their minds.
Now I appreciate that such a bold step won't sit well with those of a subservient nature, but it is really the best course of action for us to take now.

How, and why, are the EU going to do this?

The EU are going to have to do this as their current business model relies too heavily on the likes of us funding it. The pressure that will be placed on the Commission by the other billpaying countries to start negotiating properly will ensure this.

17+m voted to 'leave', but they all voted for something different. I hear leavers saying they will take this deal, and I hear leavers saying we need more (I also hear leavers saying they will vote remain next time). So yes, more voted 'leave', but they didn't all vote for the same final deal.

What ALL the Leavers voted for was to "Leave the EU". The current withdrawal agreement spectacularly fails to deliver upon this sacrosanct objective, and that is why it will fail.
There can be no hiding place for ALL of our politicians now. They will simply have to start working together or face the wrath of ALL the voters at the next election. None of them are coming out of the current mess with any real credibility.
As a job lot they have frittered away the last couple of years trying to score petty points.
Time to start delivering on the wishes of the Electorate.

[Cirrus]

Long Live Domocracy!!!

And as ever, the whiney kn0bhead expects the 17m+ that voted to Leave the EU to simply accept a deal that offers less than what we had in the first place while totally ignoring the fact that it has been the gurning losers that have undermined our position from day one by refusing to accept democracy.

we undermined and now screwed the gamblers. Brexit is a distant dream. The BRINO deal is predictably stupid. That leaves - deja vu all over again - Remain.

It might have seemed a tough thing to fight but sensible people knew that people like you were totally 100% devoid of any understanding of what the whole thing was about or what a non-EU future could look like. Once we started to fight back, you didn't stand a chance in hell.

But of course you'll benefit just like the rest of us.

Close shave, but don't try that sort of thing again.

[meridian]

We can get better than we have today.....

Stopped reading here, this is the point you’ve proven yourself to be delusional.

[shaunbhoy]

Stopped reading here, this is the point I realised that you are not, like me, a kowtowing surrender-monkey.

ftfy

[Lance]

The two together yes.

The voters didn't think it through, not unsurprisingly. Indeed those on the DUP side who were, I understand, opposed the GFA, were remiss in not seeing the potential problems it created in regard to a possible future Brexit; they should have seen the problem and should have brought it to the attention of the electorate there.

p.s. it is 20 years since the ending of civil war in Northern Ireland. I wonder whether, if the UK brought back a hard border to Northern Ireland, there would be a return to violence? I suspect there would not be, as fewer people on both sides are as religious as they were then, and fewer people care about politics as much, especially the younger generation.

That maybe true but are they any less tribal?

The unionist para-militaries are still armed and still kneecapping people.
The republican para-militaries are still armed and still kneecapping people.
They have less guns than they did thanks to John De Chastelain

If anyone was to bring that area into full blown 'troubles' it would be a hard border, and /or the threat of a united Ireland.
Which is why it's considered a serious issue.

[GJABS]

That maybe true but are they any less tribal?

The unionist para-militaries are still armed and still kneecapping people.
The republican para-militaries are still armed and still kneecapping people.
They have less guns than they did thanks to John De Chastelain

If anyone was to bring that area into full blown 'troubles' it would be a hard border, and /or the threat of a united Ireland.
Which is why it's considered a serious issue.

Maybe.

Perhaps the UK could lose Northern Ireland. I personally would have no objection to that, but only if it can be done in such a way that the successors to the IRA won't turn around and say "Hey, we bombed the British in the 1970's and this helped us achieve our political objectives" - that would set a terrible precedent, and encourage more terrorism as a political strategy by evil people in the future.

[NotAllThere]

... There can be no hiding place for ALL of our politicians now. . They will simply have to start working together or face the wrath of ALL the voters at the next election..

And how's that going to play out, exactly?

Who do you plan on voting for other than a politician?

[shaunbhoy]

And how's that going to play out, exactly?

If you had any imagination you'd be able to work it out for yourself. But as you don't, it shall forever remain shrouded in mystery for you.

[NotAllThere]

If you had any imagination you'd be able to work it out for yourself. But as you don't, it shall forever remain shrouded in mystery for you.

There's two possibilities here
1. You really do have something in mind
2. You're being a prat.

On the balance of probabilities, and noting the tone of your posts in the last few weeks, I'll go for 2.

Anyway- on with the Glorious Revolution, Komrades!