Cataclysm of Brexit 'could lead to Welsh independence'

[NotAllThere]

Perhaps so, but there are also great cultural differences between the UK & Ger/Fra, that aren't true for Eng/Scot.

Having worked and socialised with the French, Germans and Scottish, I've generally found that there are fewer cultural differences between Germans/French and English, than between Scottish and English. Except for humour of course.

We're certainly closer culturally than with the Americans.

[vetran]

The Welsh devolution referendum was won on 50.3%

I think they need a re-run as they probably didn't know what they were voting for and it wasn't a clear majority, it was probably only advisory too and some old people might have died.

[Batcher]

You do realize that not every country in the EU can take out more than they put in - because obviously that would not work (even my basic math is good enough for this)

So I wonder what Germany and France will want in return for free money?

All the EU countries have their own markets and make their own money. The EU is a club to make it easier to trade with each other. The money collected is used as subsidies where it is needed. For example, Cornwall voted Leave but get big subsidies from the EU. When that stops there is no way London-centric Westminster will pay out the same kind of subsidies.

[Batcher]

You mean "apart from the enormous subsidies provided (mostly) by the English taxpayers?". I'll admit to being quite surprised Wales voted to leave and Scotland voted to remain, if anything it should have been the other way round. The Scots have had their fishing industry massacred by the EU, whereas the Welsh have Aero and motor industries which depend on good trading relations with the EU. Perhaps it's a case of the Scots "would rather be ruled by the EU than the bastard English bastards." If that's true, Nicola Krankie can't lose, surely...

You should really stop reading the Daily Mail.

Scotland puts more in than it gets back. If we really were so heavily subsidised, why are Westminster so desperate to hold onto us?

We are the only oil producing nation that makes £0 from it. We also produce enough electricity for the whole of scotland from wind and wave power.

The EU is a different union from the UK. WE have 59 MPs against 590 or so English MPs so we can't outvote what England wants and the EU ref showed that as 62% of Scotland voted remain. In the EU all nations have a proper say in the running and have a veto. That's why little Ireland can hold out for what they want from Brexit because the other 26 back them up.

[Batcher]

Also - didn't the EU tell Scotland they would go the back of the queue if they left the UK?

There is no queue to join the EU.

If you meet the criteria then you will be admitted. Since Turkey has applied to join, 16 independent nations have joined ahead of them. If there was a queue they wouldn't get in until Turkey had met their criteria.

EU enlargement: The next seven - BBC News

[Batcher]

Try googling* "Catalan independence, EU membership, and Spanish veto"

*Other search engines are available

Scottish independence is different from Catalonian independence.

Most of the googling will being up quotes from the PP far right government in Madrid which will fight against it but the Spanish MEPs recognise the difference.

Catalonia are fighting against the Spanish constitution which has it written that Catalonia can't have self determination and that's why its recent referendum was declared illegal.

The UK doesn't have a written constitution and a referendum in Scotland would be legal like the one in 2014 was with a section 30 order. If the UK government keeps refusing a section 30 then we can hold an advisory one like the EU Ref was and declare it legal. Scottish people are sovereign whereas English people have assigned their sovereignty to Westminster.

We have a claim of right that was passed in Westminster recently

Claim of Right for Scotland - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.

If we decide that Westminster isn't best suited to our needs then we can dissolve the act of union and become independent.

[Bean]

Those first two apply to Germany and France.

Perhaps so, but there are also great cultural differences between the UK & Ger/Fra, that aren't true for Eng/Scot.

HTH

Shared language applies to Ireland as well and English is a Germanic language related to Dutch, German, Norwegian, Danish Icelandic, Faroese and Swedish
Nuke storage is mostly on board of submarines

and the Irish love the brits so much, some are willing to bomb us if there's a hard border? (as implied by lots of remainers btw) lol

By shared language, I meant it is relatively the 1st language spoken at home in those countries. Germans do not, by default speak English when they are at home with say, Grandmutter do they?

HTH

[original PM]

You can join Plaid Cymru for free this year to show support

JOIN PLAID CYMRU FOR FREE - The Party of Wales

Of course Scotland and Wales would be welcome in the EU. More and more of the EU recognise that small independence nations can add a lot to the EU. Scotland has fantastic natural resources so it would be silly to think they wouldn't be accepted. In fact, it is those natural resources that Westminster is fighting so hard to hold onto. The union is finished though and ironically it's the Conservative and Unionist Party that killed it off.

Irish senator Neale Richmond says an independent Scotland would be welcomed back into EU | The National

You do realize that not every country in the EU can take out more than they put in - because obviously that would not work (even my basic math is good enough for this)

So I wonder what Germany and France will want in return for free money?

[vetran]

So you are saying England is a nett contributor to Scotland similar to the EU? So why do brexiteers want to leave the EU but not the UK?

I'm not saying that, the figures prove it.

I personally don't mind if Scotland gets independence but it sort of makes sense that we work together as the UK.
The EU however gets to rule us so I'm not keen.

[Zigenare]

The difficulty of the nukes is they are transported by road from the sub base in Scotland to northern England and back for maintenance, sometimes running through small villages and towns.

That might be about to change because the SNP passed a resolution at conference to give local authorities the power to block the convoys.

SNP Backs Call to Block Nuclear Convoys in Scotland - Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament

Erm, Burghfield and Aldermaston are not (the last time I looked) in the North of England.

Coulport is not a sub base, it is a "Nuclear Store" or "Safe".

I'm willing to be corrected.