To the foaming mad Brexiters crying foul that democracy has been thwarted...

[Old Greg]

Trumps demands, etc, are unknown and how he might apply them on a whim are unknown. His ideas are crazy enough that having a multi-national army that leaves the US would probably be quite a good idea. It certainly would have saved a few thousand lives in recent conflicts. His desire to increase the defence spending from 2% to 4% - that is irrelevant and only aimed at boosting sales for his mates in arms manufacturing.

How did you arrive at your 6.6% figure?

He asked a unicorn.

[WTFH]

He asked a unicorn.

Is that who May has appointed to lead negotiations, or is it who JRM has nominated to lead the Tories?

[Bean]

Trumps demands, etc, are unknown and how he might apply them on a whim are unknown. His ideas are crazy enough that having a multi-national army that leaves the US would probably be quite a good idea. It certainly would have saved a few thousand lives in recent conflicts. His desire to increase the defence spending from 2% to 4% - that is irrelevant and only aimed at boosting sales for his mates in arms manufacturing.

How did you arrive at your 6.6% figure?

Googled Nato spending by country, then subtracted the values of eu countries from 2% and then added it all up etc... What figure do you arrive at, or cba?

[WTFH]

Googled Nato spending by country, then subtracted the values of eu countries from 2% and then added it all up etc... What figure do you arrive at, or cba?

Was intrigued at how you'd worked it out

[darmstadt]

Fair point, well made.

That being said, what if Trump demands all the other NATO members contribute at least 2% of GDP? - I believe that tips it the other way, given that only 3 EU countries currently spend >=2% of GDP on defence...

Was intrigued at how you'd worked it out

Need to do a bit more maths there:

Estonia at 2.16%
Greece at 2.38%
Lithuania at 2.06%
UK at 2.21%

[Bean]

Need to do a bit more maths there:

Estonia at 2.16%
Greece at 2.38%
Lithuania at 2.06%
UK at 2.21%

What, you think I should have included an assumption that states currently spending over 2% will reduce their spending?

I was merely pointing out, that if all EU NATO countries met their spending commitments (2% of gdp), then the debt to gdp of the EU would be ~6.6% higher, than it currently stands at.

[Bean]

Was intrigued at how you'd worked it out

I thought it was a reasonable methodology and definitely not via a unicorn.

I agree about boosting arms sales, although you could say that's also a by-product of NATO too - since it has to be NATO compliant stuff AFAIK.

[Bean]

Those EU graphs may change their trend if this is true;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44808077

"Speaking after a two-day summit in Brussels, he said allies had committed to spending more than 2% of their annual output (GDP) on defence budgets."

[VelcroPower]

Those EU graphs may change their trend if this is true;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44808077

"Speaking after a two-day summit in Brussels, he said allies had committed to spending more than 2% of their annual output (GDP) on defence budgets."

You can find out if it's true or not by reading a bit further down the article...

After the summit, President Emmanuel Macron denied any increases had been made to the existing goal, according to the Associated Press.

He referred to a joint communiqué that was published the day before. "It confirms the goal of 2% by 2024. That's all," he said.

[vetran]

I didn't realise Thatcher was involved in the current negotiations with the EU, perhaps even in her grave she would have done a better job than the current lot. Thatcher sold off a lot of public assets to private companies to raise money, promising that the new companies would be far more efficient and would provide an improved service. They are far more profitable now for their shareholders, but not delivering improvements to their customers. She, like New Liebour, survived one election by going to war.

It may all be voodoo, but a lot of the UK's economy is now based on financial markets, so it's useful to know what these voodoo people are talking about, since we no longer have a big UK owned manufacturing sector, or energy, or agirculture, or engineering.

You don't remember waiting 6 months to get a phone line or an extension wired up? (Not provided just re-enabled at the exchange).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...y-1281602.html

Gas, water & electric had similar waits.

British Steel & Rolls Royce were in a mess.

They are now internationally renowned. Having worked with a few competitors BT is a world leading organisation from a rather over staffed & lost one 40 years ago.