To the foaming mad Brexiters crying foul that democracy has been thwarted...

[WTFH]

"reliable source"? You mean like a respected economist? Maybe one of the 364 who sent a letter to the times pointing out Thatcher was wrecking the economy.

Its all voodoo.

Do you believe in sky fairies too?

I didn't realise Thatcher was involved in the current negotiations with the EU, perhaps even in her grave she would have done a better job than the current lot. Thatcher sold off a lot of public assets to private companies to raise money, promising that the new companies would be far more efficient and would provide an improved service. They are far more profitable now for their shareholders, but not delivering improvements to their customers. She, like New Liebour, survived one election by going to war.

It may all be voodoo, but a lot of the UK's economy is now based on financial markets, so it's useful to know what these voodoo people are talking about, since we no longer have a big UK owned manufacturing sector, or energy, or agirculture, or engineering.

[GreenMirror]

I didn't realise Thatcher was involved in the current negotiations with the EU, perhaps even in her grave she would have done a better job than the current lot. Thatcher sold off a lot of public assets to private companies to raise money, promising that the new companies would be far more efficient and would provide an improved service. They are far more profitable now for their shareholders, but not delivering improvements to their customers. She, like New Liebour, survived one election by going to war.

It may all be voodoo, but a lot of the UK's economy is now based on financial markets, so it's useful to know what these voodoo people are talking about, since we no longer have a big UK owned manufacturing sector, or energy, or agirculture, or engineering.

Thatcher, for her many faults, believed certain things had to be done. You knew what she believed in.

If you want to get 10 economic opinions, you have to ask 9 economists.

Until plan B works out, I am working at a bank. When I tell people how they "operate" most wonder how they ever manage to make money. The are going to be overtaken by fintechs at some point.

[Bean]

Link to somewhere that says the EU is going to be hit by Brexit.

Link to somewhere that says the EU % debt is worse than the UK's - the link you provided to Trading Economics does not back up your claim, as you'd know if you read the link.

Just to help you, your source has a separate table on the continent of Europe:
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

It might be interesting to look at the direction the graphs have gone since the Brexit vote as well.

"Euro Area" - down
"European Union" - down
UK?

Yep, I made a mistake and said the EU, instead of the Euro area.

Anyway, as requested;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...d-hit-Uk-leave
&
https://www.ft.com/content/435d4698-...8-60d3531b7d11
"It calculated that if a future customs arrangement was in place between the UK and the bloc that was equivalent to the current customs union, the impact of Brexit on the EU27 would be reduced to £14bn and on the UK to £17bn."

[WTFH]

Yep, I made a mistake and said the EU, instead of the Euro area.

Anyway, as requested;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...d-hit-Uk-leave
&
https://www.ft.com/content/435d4698-...8-60d3531b7d11
"It calculated that if a future customs arrangement was in place between the UK and the bloc that was equivalent to the current customs union, the impact of Brexit on the EU27 would be reduced to £14bn and on the UK to £17bn."

Just moving the bold bit to the relevant section. So, the impact you're talking about would only come into place if a customs arrangement was made that was designed in a particular way.

Back to my earlier link - did you spot the actual figures and the direction they were heading? No "if", no "maybe", no "depending on negotiations", etc

[Bean]

Just moving the bold bit to the relevant section. So, the impact you're talking about would only come into place if a customs arrangement was made that was designed in a particular way.

Back to my earlier link - did you spot the actual figures and the direction they were heading? No "if", no "maybe", no "depending on negotiations", etc

and it also states it would be 'reduced to' - what does that mean if there isn't one? What are they implying?

Oh sorry, you edited your post and added that part later, didn't you?
Yes - they seem to suggest a reduction in the ratio for the EU & the Euro Area and an increase for the UK.

[WTFH]

Yes - they seem to suggest a reduction in the ratio for the EU & the Euro Area and an increase for the UK.

Yes, that would imply (at least from the EU point of view), that if you remove a country with an above average % debt, then the average will drop further for the EU.
Which will disappoint some, if the EU doesn't suffer enough for their liking.

[Bean]

Yes, that would imply (at least from the EU point of view), that if you remove a country with an above average % debt, then the average will drop further for the EU.
Which will disappoint some, if the EU doesn't suffer enough for their liking.

We haven't left yet though, so not sure how that can already be 'showing', if ya get my drift.

The country also removes their GDP from 'the pot' too though, 16% according to the FT;
https://www.ft.com/content/dec6968c-...5-e94187b3017e

[WTFH]

We haven't left yet though, so not sure how that can already be 'showing', if ya get my drift.

Correct, we haven't left.
The EU's % debt is currently dropping, while the UK's is increasing.
The UK's % debt is currently greater than the EU's.

So, if you remove the UK's % debt from the EU's, then the EU's will decrease further. The following are in billions of USD as at December 2017:

EU GDP: 17,278
EU Debt: 14,098.85
EU % debt: 81.6

UK GDP: 2,622
UK Debt: 2,236.57
UK % Debt: 85.3%

Remove the UK's GDP and Debt from the EU's
EU - UK GDP: 14,656
EU - UK Debt: 11,862.28
EU - UK % Debt: 80.9%

So, the UK leaving the EU is good for the EU's debt figures (which are falling anyway, while the UK's are rising)

[Bean]

Correct, we haven't left.
The EU's % debt is currently dropping, while the UK's is increasing.
The UK's % debt is currently greater than the EU's.

So, if you remove the UK's % debt from the EU's, then the EU's will decrease further. The following are in billions of USD as at December 2017:

EU GDP: 17,278
EU Debt: 14,098.85
EU % debt: 81.6

UK GDP: 2,622
UK Debt: 2,236.57
UK % Debt: 85.3%

Remove the UK's GDP and Debt from the EU's
EU - UK GDP: 14,656
EU - UK Debt: 11,862.28
EU - UK % Debt: 80.9%

So, the UK leaving the EU is good for the EU's debt figures (which are falling anyway, while the UK's are rising)

Fair point, well made.

That being said, what if Trump demands all the other NATO members contribute at least 2% of GDP? - I believe that tips it the other way, given that only 3 EU countries currently spend >=2% of GDP on defence...

Rough calcs indicate ~6.6% GDP deficit on defence spending, which when applied to your EU-UK figures, takes the ratio to ~87% (Food for thought eh?)

[WTFH]

Fair point, well made.

That being said, what if Trump demands all the other NATO members contribute at least 2% of GDP? - I believe that tips it the other way, given that only 3 EU countries currently spend >=2% of GDP on defence...

Rough calcs indicate ~6.6% GDP deficit on defence spending, which when applied to your EU-UK figures, takes the ratio to ~87% (Food for thought eh?)

Trumps demands, etc, are unknown and how he might apply them on a whim are unknown. His ideas are crazy enough that having a multi-national army that leaves the US would probably be quite a good idea. It certainly would have saved a few thousand lives in recent conflicts. His desire to increase the defence spending from 2% to 4% - that is irrelevant and only aimed at boosting sales for his mates in arms manufacturing.

How did you arrive at your 6.6% figure?