Brexit Transition

[NotAllThere]

The most likely outcome is the slow death of the Tory government and a Labour government taking the UK into a Swiss style deal.

With Swiss style democracy? Or Stalin style?

[Bean]

SNIP
Brexit will increase a minuscule amount of control for a reduction in economic power and influence. IMO the value of the trade off simply isn’t worth it.

The referendum result decided it was, sorry you personally disagree (without knowing exactly what the end result is yet)

SNIP
but you need to put on your big boy pants and listen if you’re being told it’s not possible or that it’s harmful.

Seems like an ad-hominem, what do they say about those in a debate?

SNIP
You’re continuing the attitude of “52% means we can do whatever we want”,

Are you forgetting the role of parliament voting on Article 50, etc etc?

instead of comprehending that 48% of the voting electorate plus an additional 20% of the population that are not eligible to vote still need their rights and considerations to be taken into account by their MPs. A true winner would look for a win/win solution and some compromise.
SNIP

Out of interest, why do you think people who cannot vote should be pandered to by MPs?

What is an MPs job?
https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...ympenglish.pdf
"MPs have responsibilities to three main groups: their constituents, Parliament and their political party."

What is a constituent?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...ive&gws_rd=ssl
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent
"an individual voter within an electoral district (constituency)"

[jamesbrown]

And therein lies the twin problems in two paragraphs....

Or perhaps a bifurcation in your thinking?

Your middle paragraph claims that the central message of the leave campaign needs to be translated into policy, when: 1. We always had control (or at least enough that mattered) and influence.

In what sense is control a binary thing? Mattered to whom? Do you understand the legislative process? Let me suggest that you do not. The majority of EU directives (plus some regulations) are implemented via SI under the ECA 1972. They receive little or no scrutiny, and we have little or no role in deciding them. There's no effective way to demur; even the HoL can ask the Commons to rethink!

Brexit will increase a minuscule amount of control for a reduction in economic power and influence. IMO the value of the trade off simply isn’t worth it.

IMO, you're guessing. Afterall, the UK economy is 80-85% services, which implies significant power to influence future regulation surrounding services in a way that could differ substantially from how the EU will regulate services (when they eventually get around to a single market in services).

2. The government appears to have no idea what Brexit means

I'd suggest the gov't isn't alone.

The government has no mandate to deliver a specific promise made by a non-governmental coalition of people.

How very Corbynite of you.

You want to have cake and eat it, but you need to put on your big boy pants and listen if you’re being told it’s not possible or that it’s harmful.

I dare say that you're the child in this particular room. Votes have consequences. Big votes have big consequences. What part of that did you not understand from my earlier response? Anyone that says we didn't vote to accept the economic consequences ("vote to get poorer" in remainer terms) is deluded. The central, contemptible, message of remainers throughout the campaign was one of economic Armageddon.

Your last paragraph can be summarised as “we won, you lost”.

We did, afterall, win. You did, afterall, lose. To hardcore remainers, there's no compromise. I'm not arguing for WTO, for example. Many remainers are asking for the referendum to be ignored.

Which regulations (or areas of regulation) if we changed, would increase the quality of life or our trade balance?

Is you argument that, over time, more of our regulations should be governed, centrally, by the EU? Or is it simply that we'd arrived at the sunlit uplands of perfect regulatory equivalence among EU unicorns and rainbows? Over what further areas of regulation would you like us to have ceded control?

[darmstadt]

With Swiss style democracy? Or Stalin style?

No, national socialist style:



Not much has changed with the rabid right wing press I see

[SunnyInHades]

until Korbyn wins the landslide election victory, then we will fully leave the EU

With Blair returning as adviser, after doing a public u-turn and returning to the beliefs which shaped his political career...

[darmstadt]

With Blair returning as adviser, after doing a public u-turn and returning to the beliefs which shaped his political career...

Much like the current crop:

[jamesbrown]

Much like the current crop:

Pfffft. Care to share the actual article with the actual quote intended to mean as you imply? Or do you need a bus for that?

28 February 2016:

Don’t be taken in by Project Fear – staying in the EU is the risky choice

[darmstadt]

Pfffft. Care to share the actual article with the actual quote intended to mean as you imply? Or do you need a bus for that?

28 February 2016:

Don’t be taken in by Project Fear – staying in the EU is the risky choice

Boris Johnson Admits Writing Second Telegraph Column Backing 'Remain'

European Union (Accessions) Bill (Hansard, 21 May 2003)

I am not by any means an ultra-Eurosceptic. In some ways, I am a bit of a fan of the European Union. If we did not have one, we would invent something like it—some means of association between the sovereign states of Europe, perhaps an organisation in Brussels—overnight. I was educated at a European school. If I wanted to, I could sing the "Ode to Joy" in German.

My key point is that there are tangible benefits to our membership of the European Union. At some stage the game is up and all bets are off, as our political careers are all extinguished in one way or another. However, under the terms of the benign and beneficent Single European Act—several hon. Members have generously pointed out that it was a Conservative inspiration and that Mrs. Thatcher, as she then was, pushed forward with the extension of free market values across the European Community—I would be able to seek an alternative career as a dentist in Belgium or, with what we are inaugurating today, in Poland, Malta or any of the other accession countries.

"I would vote to stay in the single market," Johnson told Sky News in 2013.

"I'm in favour of the single market. I want us to be able to trade freely with our European friends and partners."

"Personally, I would like to stay in the single market," he added during a visit to Paris that year.

"We need to stay in the council of ministers of the internal market. In my view, the British have done good things for Europe."

Boris Johnson's secret pro-EU article revealed, expressing doubts over Brexit | The Independent

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3370296.html

[jamesbrown]

I thought that was the speculative crap you were alluding to (the "second" column), since I couldn't find it in the DT archive.

You definitely need a honking red bus.

[meridian]

Is you argument that, over time, more of our regulations should be governed, centrally, by the EU? Or is it simply that we'd arrived at the sunlit uplands of perfect regulatory equivalence among EU unicorns and rainbows? Over what further areas of regulation would you like us to have ceded control?

So you have nothing then, just the ideology of leaving without any detail required.