Okay - I was wrong on Brexit

[The_Equalizer]

But given that many want to stop all migrants coming to the UK, then where will we get nurses from if they aren't allowed in?

I've never met a Brexiter yet who has said that they don't want anyone coming to the UK. I'm more than happy for nurses - or anyone else the country needs - to come provided they are of good character. There are, however, plenty of perfectly capable young people here that could be trained. Where I am nursing is oversubscribed - why not add more places? If net-immigration wasn't running in the 100Ks we probably wouldn't require so many people.

[The_Equalizer]

British nurses for British patients.

Nothing of the sort.

[WTFH]

British nurses for British patients.

I'm with you on that, unfortunately there are not that many British nurses around, particularly due to the training over recent years being more academic and less practical, which has led to nurses who can calculate doses of drugs very quickly, but can't catheterise a patient and don't spend time doing things like making the beds.
Back 20+ years ago a nursing course was split 50/50 between the classroom and the ward.
You didn't need 4 A levels to be a nurse, you didn't need to be massively gifted academically, it was almost a vocational type course.
When a nurse would make a patient's bed, they would have to get the patient out of bed and onto a seat, they could see the patient's mobility, they could see how much pain the patient was in. They would have a couple minutes while making the bed to chat to the patient. A good nurse would be able to learn a lot about the patient in that time. They would also change bedpans, change catheter bags, etc, where they could observe the colour/consistency, etc.

Now nurses are coming out of university with little practical experience, and then nursing auxiliaries are brought in to do the "menial" tasks that are actually a big part of the caring process.

[OwlHoot]

If net-immigration wasn't running in the 100Ks we probably wouldn't require so many people.

Also, non-EU immigrants to the UK seem to need a disproportionate amount of medical care themselves, including midwife services for the many children they typically have.

Last time I was in the outpatients of Chelsea & Westminster Hospital about three years ago, practically everyone waiting and milling around there seemed to be from overseas (based on skin colour and speech).

[The_Equalizer]

I'm with you on that, unfortunately there are not that many British nurses around, particularly due to the training over recent years being more academic and less practical, which has led to nurses who can calculate doses of drugs very quickly, but can't catheterise a patient and don't spend time doing things like making the beds.
Back 20+ years ago a nursing course was split 50/50 between the classroom and the ward.
You didn't need 4 A levels to be a nurse, you didn't need to be massively gifted academically, it was almost a vocational type course.
When a nurse would make a patient's bed, they would have to get the patient out of bed and onto a seat, they could see the patient's mobility, they could see how much pain the patient was in. They would have a couple minutes while making the bed to chat to the patient. A good nurse would be able to learn a lot about the patient in that time. They would also change bedpans, change catheter bags, etc, where they could observe the colour/consistency, etc.

Now nurses are coming out of university with little practical experience, and then nursing auxiliaries are brought in to do the "menial" tasks that are actually a big part of the caring process.

I've just got the train in with my sister-in-law who is 20 and studying a branch of nursing. She's doing 9-5 placement all summer as her course requires this. They spend most of the time 'out in the field'.

[WTFH]

Also, non-EU immigrants to the UK seem to need a disproportionate amount of medical care themselves, including midwife services for the many children they typically have.

Last time I was in the outpatients of Chelsea & Westminster Hospital about three years ago, practically everyone waiting and milling around there seemed to be from overseas (based on skin colour and speech).

If only we could have done something to stop non-EU immigration, cause it's not the EU's fault, no matter how some have tried to twist it.

[WTFH]

I've just got the train in with my sister-in-law who is 20 and studying a branch of nursing. She's doing 9-5 placement all summer as her course requires this. They spend most of the time 'out in the field'.

Yes, it has started to change back in the last couple of years, thankfully.

[The_Equalizer]

Yes, it has started to change back in the last couple of years, thankfully.

Indeed.

[BlasterBates]

If only we could have done something to stop non-EU immigration, cause it's not the EU's fault, no matter how some have tried to twist it.

80% of EU immigrants come to the UK to work, whereas only 20% of non-EU immigrants come to work. Clamping down on EU immigration whilst turning a blind eye to non-EU immigration seems somewhat counter-productive.

The fact is even after the UK leaves the EU, the population will continue to expand almost at the same rate, but the working population will shrink as they clamp down on EU immigration.

[BrilloPad]

I've never met a Brexiter yet who has said that they don't want anyone coming to the UK. I'm more than happy for nurses - or anyone else the country needs - to come provided they are of good character. There are, however, plenty of perfectly capable young people here that could be trained. Where I am nursing is oversubscribed - why not add more places? If net-immigration wasn't running in the 100Ks we probably wouldn't require so many people.

The UK needs to do far more training. Until robots take over.