Time to stop talking about Brexit and move on

[Fronttoback]

Just can't give it a rest can you?

Haven't you got a flight to catch? No, because you're at the Luton bus station waiting for a lift to Skegness for your annual holibobs. Enjoy

Anyway, I'm off to my pool. Ciao xx

[sasguru]

What Eurosceptics do is mix and match to make bogus arguments. .

Well whatever, all this stuff has to stop now.
We're brexiting so any bogus arguments can be used on their kids.

[sasguru]

Haven't you got a flight to catch? No, because you're at the Luton bus station waiting for a lift to Skegness for your annual holibobs. Enjoy

Anyway, I'm off to my pool. Ciao xx

Flying off tomorrow. Enjoy "your" pool. Try to avoid the other tenants while you paddle around.

[Bee]

Italy, Spain and Portugal have a debt problem, outside of the EU they could devalue their currency and be more competitive and some debts would actually cost less to pay back. You can't do that when you are in the Euro.

Greece has fundamental problems and because they are in the Euro their debt payments spiraled. They should not have been loaned that money in the first place. The bailouts have gone straight to German and French banks and Greece will never pay that debt back, instead will be stuck in austerity until its on its knees and then the debt will be restructured.

Those that say well Greece should pay it back they borrowed it. You can't have guaranteed debt, hence bankruptcy - that's why we have different interest rates depending on the risk. Greece should have left the euro and defaulted. If it defaulted that would have left Germany in one crap place.

Portugal has a debt problem and we will have an additional problem having more British refugees with caravans taking our parking spots near the beach.

[woohoo]

Before the Euro Southern European countries issued debt in DMs. You can't raise debt on the international markets with a "Banana Republic" currency. Without the Euro they would have ended up like Argentina, who also had all its debt in Dollars or DMs, as their currency devalued defaulting and paying a massive interest rate to raise new debt in Euros. That's why they couldn't wait to get into the Euro and why they'll never leave it.

What Eurosceptics do is mix and match to make bogus arguments. They talk about devaluation helping their debts by making the completely bogus assumption that Greece would have had all its debts in Drachma. Nothing could be further from the truth. The other bogus argument is Greece would have exported its way out after the devaluation. What on earth would they export ? Greece is an import nation that, like Argentina, would simply have become impoverished by a devaluation. Yes of course there are the holiday resorts, but the food and even staff are "imported" so that wouldn't help. I did see a documentary on Greece and the managers were saying devaluation wouldn't help because they wouldn't have been able to import any goods or materials for their products and would have simply gone bankrupt as their home market collapsed.

There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

[Bee]

There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

I understand your theory and it's probably correct but I think if a country doesn't make an effort to pay the debt that country would lose the confidence of the investors and will be the end.

[woohoo]

I understand your theory and it's probably correct but I think if a country doesn't make an effort to pay the debt that country would lose the confidence of the investors and will be the end.

I understand where you coming from and to a point I agree with you. But here is the thing Greece is never ever going to pay that money back. The bailouts have gone straight to the banks.

The narrative of lazy Greeks being bailed out by thrifty Germans is unhelpful and hides the real suffering going on. People committing suicide and the young leaving.

Also, if you actually look at it the German banks lent money incompetently on a huge scale, in the US and Europe. They received a bailout but for political reasons they could not get a second bailout. So Merkel the competent politician decided to sell it as bailout to Greece, money from the EU and IMF (taxpayers money) went to Greece then straight to the German banks. A big huge bailout! Now Greece is left with debt it will never ever pay back and the country is in a dire straight.

You can blame the Greek government for its incompetence all you like and there is plenty of things wrong with Greece but this is no way to help Greece. Also, look to the banks in France and Germany far from competent and reckless on a grand scale.

Sorry to go on about this but it makes my blood boil.

[Bee]

I understand where you coming from and to a point I agree with you. But here is the thing Greece is never ever going to pay that money back. The bailouts have gone straight to the banks.

The narrative of lazy Greeks being bailed out by thrifty Germans is unhelpful and hides the real suffering going on. People committing suicide and the young leaving.

Also, if you actually look at it the German banks lent money incompetently on a huge scale, in the US and Europe. They received a bailout but for political reasons they could not get a second bailout. So Merkel the competent politician decided to sell it as bailout to Greece, money from the EU and IMF (taxpayers money) went to Greece then straight to the German banks. A big huge bailout! Now Greece is left with debt it will never ever pay back and the country is in a dire straight.

You can blame the Greek government for its incompetence all you like and there is plenty of things wrong with Greece but this is no way to help Greece. Also, look to the banks in France and Germany far from competent and reckless on a grand scale.

Sorry to go on about this but it makes my blood boil.

I really understand what you mean.

Honestly, any country with a big debt will be impossible to pay the debt because after the loans we need to pay a lot of interests, it's a vicious cycle and a good business for European Central Bank.

I don't know if I'm wrong because I'm not an economy expert but it's my impression.

[northernladuk]

I really understand what you mean.

Honestly, any country with a big debt will be impossible to pay the debt because after the loans we need to pay a lot of interests, it's a vicious cycle and a good business for European Central Bank.

I don't know if I'm wrong because I'm not an economy expert but it's my impression.

Bit like Portugal you mean?

[BlasterBates]

There are arguements for and against defaulting, you can find leading economists arguing both ways.

Staying in the euro leaves Greece in a terrible situation with no chance of paying off it's debt. People who can leave are leaving and i worry what state Greece will be in by the time the debt is restructured.

Would be better as someone else said to forgive the debt or restructure it and work to improve the economy. But the family that is the EU is not interested. Regardless of anything else the eu has handled the Greece debt problem in a frankly disgusting manner.

The Greeks pay a far lower interest rate on loans from the EU than they would on the market, and a substantial amount of debt has actually been written off.

https://www.esm.europa.eu/publicatio...enefits-greece

If the Greeks were to default then they would be able to raise no new capital for a long while and then only at very high interest rates.

When Argentina defaulted there was no foreign investment at all for several years. Contrast that with Greece which is now growing. Argentina's debt wasn't forgiven, they just simply stopped paying the interest and then had to go through a long negotiation process to come to agreement with all their creditors, because when you default nobody will give you anything.

Greece can't simply default, and quite evidently the EU's support has been successful as Greece is no longer in recession.

Greece currently not in recession

Greece’s economic growth received a welcome upgrade this morning, with initial estimates of a 0.1 per cent quarterly contraction revised up to 0.4 per cent growth – meaning the economy is not in recession.

Eurosceptics need to admit they got it wrong on Greece. The figures speak for themselves.