in or out ir35

[hasks]

Hi All,

I am currently working through my notice period and will start contracting once this is over (with a few weeks break in between).
I have been looking at accountants and came across the IR35 questionnaires which determine if i will fall in or out of it.
I did that to make sure that setting up a limited company is the right option for me.
That said, my first contract will be with my current employer which I guess makes a big difference in determining if I will fall in or out of the IR35.
Has anyone got a similar experience?
I suspect if that classifies me as in the IR35 i may as well go for the umbrella option...any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[ASB]

Hi All,

I am currently working through my notice period and will start contracting once this is over (with a few weeks break in between).
I have been looking at accountants and came across the IR35 questionnaires which determine if i will fall in or out of it.
I did that to make sure that setting up a limited company is the right option for me.
That said, my first contract will be with my current employer which I guess makes a big difference in determining if I will fall in or out of the IR35.
Has anyone got a similar experience?
I suspect if that classifies me as in the IR35 i may as well go for the umbrella option...any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

It is not impossible you will be outside. Though it is unlimely. Fixed price could be enough to get you out.

on the assumption that you are in a brolly is certainly simple. Also likely to be reasonably cost effective against a ltd. Depends on your rate though.

[hasks]

What do you mean by "Fixed price" that would get me out?
Sorry, I am very new to all that....
Got a 450 rate so an ltd would be ideal from what i understood so far.

[SpontaneousOrder]

What do you mean by "Fixed price" that would get me out?

I think ABS is probably referring to the fact that working to a fixed price for some deliverable puts your company at financial risk, like a real business. Something employees & temps don't have to worry about.

[malvolio]

What do you mean by "Fixed price" that would get me out?
Sorry, I am very new to all that....
Got a 450 rate so an ltd would be ideal from what i understood so far.

Go for the umbrella. You don't know enough to make an informed decision, and continuing to work for the same people that previously employed you makes it a racing certainty you will be caught.

Get the gig running, then start reading the guides we keep telling people to read. Then you may be ready to start contracting. Right now, all you're doing is saving your ex-employer some serious money and risk, and giving away your various employment rights.

When you know what you're doing, then consider switching to a Ltd Co.

[northernladuk]

Working for your old client under a different financial arrangement isn't contracting.

[ASB]

What do you mean by "Fixed price" that would get me out?
Sorry, I am very new to all that....
Got a 450 rate so an ltd would be ideal from what i understood so far.

"Yep, I will develop that. 25k guvnor". Produce report or whatever.

this puts you at financial risk, and also able to profit.

This should be difficult to attack from an ir35 standpoint. But there is no certainty of course.

[jamesbrown]

It's impossible for us to give you a definitive answer, but it's unlikely that you can justify this as being outside of IR35 unless your working practices have substantially changed. I disagree with the comment above about payment method being a decisive factor. The sensible advice would be to: go umbrella; find a contract with another company; and read more on IR35 and other aspects of running a company before you transition. At the very least, get a professional review of your contract and working practices, rather than relying on our non-expert opinions of your partially recounted situation (but it's likely to confirm the circumstantial evidence that this would be inside).

[ASB]

It's impossible for us to give you a definitive answer, but it's unlikely that you can justify this as being outside of IR35 unless your working practices have substantially changed. I disagree with the comment above about payment method being a decisive factor. The sensible advice would be to: go umbrella; find a contract with another company; and read more on IR35 and other aspects of running a company before you transition. At the very least, get a professional review of your contract and working practices, rather than relying on our non-expert opinions of your partially recounted situation (but it's likely to confirm the circumstantial evidence that this would be inside).

Fixed price is rather more than just a change of payment method. It is a totally different way of working. Though whether the op is prepared to do it and whether it is acceptable to the client are of course unknown.

If you are asserting that fixed price could be caught then that is certainly true. In actuality anything could be caught. Case law changes and evolves over time.

If you are azserting that it is likely to be caught I disagree. Fixed price immediate puts you into the "likely to be self employed" cqmp in the employment status manuals. And that is what needs to be passex for an ir35 pass.

[jamesbrown]

Fixed price is rather more than just a change of payment method. It is a totally different way of working. Though whether the op is prepared to do it and whether it is acceptable to the client are of course unknown.

If you are asserting that fixed price could be caught then that is certainly true. In actuality anything could be caught. Case law changes and evolves over time.

If you are azserting that it is likely to be caught I disagree. Fixed price immediate puts you into the "likely to be self employed" cqmp in the employment status manuals. And that is what needs to be passex for an ir35 pass.

Sure, I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that a fixed price arrangement (which is mainly how I work, incidentally) will save a situation that doesn't meet one or more of the other pillars, especially in the Friday/Monday scenario described by the OP and especially if the arrangement is artificial, i.e. driven by tax considerations (in which case I would, indeed, describe this as a payment method). I wouldn't dispute that, in a non-artificial situation, a fixed price arrangement is a very strong pointer to a proper b2b arrangement, but that isn't the situation here, and there's also a difference between the appearance of a b2b relationship and the case law on which IR35 is based (the three pillars, of which none are payment method).