IR35 - two very quick questions

[JRCT]

I'm fairly confident that my contract is ok, but after reading up on lots of IR35 stuff on here, and elsewhere I've suddenly become a bit paranoid. I've reread my contract and I'm fairly satisfied, however there are two 'minor' things that are potential worries.

I'm paid a day rate and on my contract it stipulates an 8 hour day, although it doesn't say which 8 hours.

My agency have a system in which they invoice the end client on my behalf. I just have to send them a copy of my timesheet.

The end client insists that all timesheets are put through weekly. Therefore, my ltdco will be receiving the same payment every Friday (assuming I always work 5 days).

Are any of these things likely to be an issue in themselves?

I'm happy with the rest of the contract, seems to be worded as well as it could be.


P.S. I realise that's actually 3 things.

[TheFaQQer]

Are any of these things likely to be an issue in themselves?

No.

[mudskipper]

I'm fairly confident that my contract is ok, but after reading up on lots of IR35 stuff on here, and elsewhere I've suddenly become a bit paranoid. I've reread my contract and I'm fairly satisfied, however there are two 'minor' things that are potential worries.

I'm paid a day rate and on my contract it stipulates an 8 hour day, although it doesn't say which 8 hours.

My agency have a system in which they invoice the end client on my behalf. I just have to send them a copy of my timesheet.

The end client insists that all timesheets are put through weekly. Therefore, my ltdco will be receiving the same payment every Friday (assuming I always work 5 days).

Are any of these things likely to be an issue in themselves?

I'm happy with the rest of the contract, seems to be worded as well as it could be.


P.S. I realise that's actually 3 things.

All sound fairly commonplace.

The usual advice is to get your contract professionally reviewed (QDOS or B&C) and/or join PCG+ to have representation if you are investigated.

[Craig at Nixon Williams]

These things shouldn't cause you any problems.

If I was in your shoes, I'd still get it reviewed by a professional rather than doing it myself though.

Craig

[Clare@InTouch]

As long as your working conditions cover one of the main factors - Control, Personal Service, Mutuality of Obligation - then invoicing and hours should be nothing more than admin issues.

Note though that it's your working conditions that count, not the written contract. The written contract is no use unless it's realistic.

[Old Greg]

I am in the CUK minority and never get contracts reviewed. However, you sound new? I would get your contract reviewed.

[northernladuk]

I'm fairly confident that my contract is ok, but after reading up on lots of IR35 stuff on here, and elsewhere I've suddenly become a bit paranoid. I've reread my contract and I'm fairly satisfied, however there are two 'minor' things that are potential worries.

My potential worry is you don't understand IR35 and that you are not getting it professionally reviewed.

I'm paid a day rate and on my contract it stipulates an 8 hour day, although it doesn't say which 8 hours.

And? What aspect of this worries you with regard to IR35? Read up on Direction and Control and then re-think this.

My agency have a system in which they invoice the end client on my behalf. I just have to send them a copy of my timesheet

The end client insists that all timesheets are put through weekly. Therefore, my ltdco will be receiving the same payment every Friday (assuming I always work 5 days).

And again, what aspect of IR35 is worrying you? Payment timescales are hardly a factor in how you work.

I'm happy with the rest of the contract, seems to be worded as well as it could be.

Are you really sure of that? You are qualified to make that call? You do understand that working practices trump the contract so although it is very important to get your contract worded properly and reviewed it's only have the battle?

[JRCT]

My potential worry is you don't understand IR35 and that you are not getting it professionally reviewed.



And? What aspect of this worries you with regard to IR35? Read up on Direction and Control and then re-think this.



And again, what aspect of IR35 is worrying you? Payment timescales are hardly a factor in how you work.



Are you really sure of that? You are qualified to make that call? You do understand that working practices trump the contract so although it is very important to get your contract worded properly and reviewed it's only have the battle?

Thanks.

You are all of course, correct in that I should get it reviewed. I am not qualified to make this call. However, I have read up on it a fair bit and my worries above stem from the point of control (I want to, and will, be able to work a 6 hour day or a 10 hour day depending on what I deem necessary). I just wanted to check that having "8 hours" stipulated doesn't make that sticky.

I also read that I should ideally invoice when I've delivered what I'm paid to. A regular invoice could look like a salary. It's not realistic for me to invoice at the end of 6 months of course, but I have had some flexibility in all my other contracts. It's up to me when I send in the invoice. If I'm happy to wait 4-6 weeks, then I can. It look like I can't on this contract even if I wanted to.

I'm aware that working practices outweight the contract, but I know it's still important. I certainly don't want to have a minor inclusion in the contract upset everything else.

I'm covered on RoS, MOO etc, so I'm happy with that.

I've been happy with all the contracts I've had so far, but the three points above have not been present before, so just wanted to run them by the more experienced and enlightened among you.

I will get it reviewed though.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Working hours have been discussed on here several times but if the client expects at least 8 hours in a day that's not unreasonable and just business. That they aren't specifying your actual working hours is a good thing as far as direction and control is concerned.

The arrangement with the agency is known as self-billing and has nothing to do with IR35 whatsoever - its just a means of making life easier for the agency.

The only caveat I will say is if you have a self-billing arrangement and there is any chance of you re-charging expenses to the client, watch out for the agency re-charging the net rather than the gross (and expect the classic "VAT on VAT" argument from them). If you're not going to be re-charging expenses, feel free to ignore this paragraph.

[Old Greg]

Thanks.

You are all of course, correct in that I should get it reviewed. I am not qualified to make this call. However, I have read up on it a fair bit and my worries above stem from the point of control (I want to, and will, be able to work a 6 hour day or a 10 hour day depending on what I deem necessary). I just wanted to check that having "8 hours" stipulated doesn't make that sticky.

I also read that I should ideally invoice when I've delivered what I'm paid to. A regular invoice could look like a salary. It's not realistic for me to invoice at the end of 6 months of course, but I have had some flexibility in all my other contracts. It's up to me when I send in the invoice. If I'm happy to wait 4-6 weeks, then I can. It look like I can't on this contract even if I wanted to.

I'm aware that working practices outweight the contract, but I know it's still important. I certainly don't want to have a minor inclusion in the contract upset everything else.

I'm covered on RoS, MOO etc, so I'm happy with that.

I've been happy with all the contracts I've had so far, but the three points above have not been present before, so just wanted to run them by the more experienced and enlightened among you.

I will get it reviewed though.

If you're on a daily rate, you're being paid on delivery of a day's work.

Still, I can see IR35 advantages in being paid on delivery of product / milestones, but most of us dislike the risk of poor cashflow or non-payment.