Crunch accountant or personal one ?

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

and next week we're opening an Academy so we can do all our training in-house. We live and die on the quality of advice we give, so obviously it's a huge priority.
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Great move. It's a good idea to do it in house; I did that when I owned a larger practice; cost effective and gives you more focus.

[vadhert]

Firstly Id like to say I'm happy with Crunch and I like the way the ball is in my court for getting the data up there, the rest is down to them. I like having instant data on what dividends I'm allowed, cash flow, profit, corporation tax etc, etc. Its pretty good to have someone on the end of a phone if need be too.

In the past many moons ago I used Nixon Williams who were fantastic but I closed my company down and had some downtime. When I came back to contracting, I was torn between Nixon Williams and Crunch. I read about Crunch and realized they were at the end of the road from me so thought I would give them a punt being a local business and all. Needless to say almost 5 years later I'm still a happy customer.

[SarahL2012]

Long thread - just one more point from me.

If you go with a small local firm then they will have times of the year - deadlines for SA returns being the main one - when they are absolutely swamped. I needed a reference from my accountant for a landlord in January this year and I think it was written in the early hours of the morning because he was so busy dealing with people who had left their returns until the deadline.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Long thread - just one more point from me.

If you go with a small local firm then they will have times of the year - deadlines for SA returns being the main one - when they are absolutely swamped. I needed a reference from my accountant for a landlord in January this year and I think it was written in the early hours of the morning because he was so busy dealing with people who had left their returns until the deadline.

T'was always thus, and I think all accounting firms, not just local ones, have peaks and toughs of workload.

I've spent 25 years of running my own practice trying to engineer them out, and they just pop up elsewhere

[JohnCleverAccounts]

Having worked on both sides of the fence - local accountant and specialist contractor accountant (which also happens to use an online system) - I believe contractors do need the specialist knowledge and service that local, non-specialist accountants often don't have and it's also true to say that they're more likely to have larger clients that attract more of their attention.

It's partly the knowledge, whether IR35-related or otherwise; but it's also the way the service is accessed and delivered - in many ways contractors need more up to date information, month-in-month out, as they make more key decisions based on tax than many small businesses would during a given year.

However, I'd resist the perception that the use of an online accounting tool precludes the accountancy company from being technically proficient in looking after contractors, or from knowing its stuff, or somehow makes it a 'faceless' organisation.

What we (and other firms with their own online tool) are trying to do is combine accessible, specialist, technical knowledge with simple, time-saving online tools that provide a real-time view (and allow us to pass on cost savings to the contractor) - the best of both worlds. Good technology does not preclude sound advice or personal service and vice versa. It's not one or the other.

Good 'online' firms will employ qualified staff who are experienced in dealing with contractors - all of our clients have a named, qualified accountant as their contact for advice and like others commenting on this thread, all of our clients are the same size and paying the same fees, so they all get the same level of attention and service.

Spreadsheets, online, or face-to-face: it's simply a preference as to how you want to exchange information and it's best go with the outfit that you think will suit your preferred method of working and price point. But quality of advice and specialist knowledge is something else and can be found in all these operating models... and I would suggest is a basic requirement.

[lucozade]

Crunch accountant or personal one ?

I've been with Crunch for two years.

The positives:
Web interface is brilliant

The negatives:
--Self assessment tax returns are considered an extra charge and they take ages to do them even when it's simple
--it takes ages to get an answer from your supposed account manager
--phone calls are not returned
--complaints don't get dealt with
--don't expect them to offer advice or monitor your business. You will be left to make a mess of things
--various technology excuses are used for when they don't answer your questions
--they use the excuse of "we are really busy" a lot

I'm considering leaving them but as I say the web interface is partially worth staying for.

Just doing my research into other companies and actually might just go local with someone who will actually look after my business and keep me operating right.

[JohnCleverAccounts]

We guarantee to return calls/queries the same day/next day, clients can contact their qualified accountant direct for advice and we include self-assessment returns in the contractor package price... having an online bookkeeping tool is a compliment to this (by making it easier to keep records and control your position in real-time), not a substitute for good service or advice

[JonNorris@Crunch]

I've been with Crunch for two years.

Hey there,

Thanks for the feedback - can you DM me your details so I can look into this for you?

On the Self Assessment front, we offer it as an optional extra as lots of our clients (almost half) do it themselves - we don't want to go the Sky Broadband route and bundle in pricing for stuff people ultimately won't use. That said, we do hear this quite a lot, so we're looking at ways to make it simpler. On the "takes ages" point, this is just down to how we plan our work - if you submit at one point in the year it might take two weeks, another time might take two months. Important thing from our point of view is that people know they can press the button in the app and it'll get done.

--it takes ages to get an answer from your supposed account manager
--phone calls are not returned
--complaints don't get dealt with

I'd definitely like to look into this for you - according to our Zendesk the average response time to queries right now is about 1.2 hours, so obviously something's not right here. We've had deliverability problems with our emails in the past, so that may be the cause. Again, shoot me a DM

--they use the excuse of "we are really busy" a lot

We probably have to hold our hands up on this one - we've had a few scaling issues recently (mainly around finding new office space to expand into) which means our client : Account Manager ratio has been a bit out of whack. Thankfully those problems are behind us now and we took on ten new people last week, so things should settle down.

[The Codfather]

Crunch accountant or personal one ?

I too have been with Crunch for nearly two years and I have had some good and bad experiences:

Good:
-At the beginning I would get a reply from an accountant or account manager within a few hours
-The interface is a great real time indicator of your business accounts
-The interface is simple and easy to use

Bad:
-Since Crunch have appeared to become bigger, getting a reply can take several days - this has been the case for the past 12 months or so. Emails from Crunch requesting more information from me normally arrive at 5:29 PM on a Friday so no time to reply and get a response before the weekend.
-The real time indicator I mentioned above can sometimes be wildly out when they come to do your end of year accounts, blaming 'new entries' which have been in the system for 8 months or more. So why have this real time viewer?
-Advice I receive is quite different from previous accountants and therefore business practices I have used and which have been accepted by HMRC are 'not recommended' by Crunch and they will add notes to accounts to cover their @rse with HMRC
-I can never get hold of them on the telephone
-Promises made at the outset not fulfilled. During my initial set up call I was promised their Bankbolt system - a direct link to your bank which automatically uploads your statements saving some time and effort. Upon joining and requesting this I was told it was just in trial so would have to wait until it was live. When it became live I was told I had to pay extra for it. Not what was promised.
-There is no proactive guidance on your tax affairs. I was hoping for someone to advise me how best to maximise my business financial affairs and take advantage of legal loopholes - something my previous accountants Nixon Williams were pretty good at. No such feature with Crunch.

My bad points may seem subjective rather than objective but that's because they are and I am giving you personal experiences. I have posted similar things before only to get a reply from Crunch saying they will look into it but they never do to my satisfaction, hence why I am posting this again.

Given the choice of a good, reputable local accountant that you can have a face to face conversation with then I would suggest using that. Online systems look great but you just don't know who you are dealing with or what their relevant experience is to guide you.

[cojak]

I

-There is no proactive guidance on your tax affairs. I was hoping for someone to advise me how best to maximise my business financial affairs and take advantage of legal loopholes - something my previous accountants Nixon Williams were pretty good at. No such feature with Crunch.

So why did you leave Nixon Williams for Crunch? Might it be that Crunch were cheaper?