Self Billing invoices.

[Wanderer]

I dont see why anyone needs to raise a shadow invoice 'for their records.' You have the details to hand ie your timesheet(s) and the SB invoice \ remittance advice.

I agree with that. I just keep a spreadsheet to track how much I think the invoices should be and when they should be paid then I reconcile that against the invoice/remittance advice when it arrives. Simples.

[cojak]

And I definitely didn't sign up to the self-billing agreement. It would have alerted me to this.

[Contreras]

If you want to put in place a self-billing arrangement with your supplier you don't have to tell HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) or get approval from them. But you do have to do the following:

• get your supplier to agree to the arrangement
  
• meet certain conditions

HM Revenue & Customs: Self-billing and VAT

Quite. So as a contractor if you're uncomfortable with self-billing then just stall on the requests to do so. The agency might squeal some but it's hardly a deal breaker.

Personally I'm not happy where the self-billing is linked to electronic sign-off of timesheets and no paper trail to settle "computer says no" arguments.

And I definitely didn't sign up to the self-billing agreement. It would have alerted me to this.

Tut tut. Naughty them and naughty you.

[cojak]

Quite. So as a contractor if you're uncomfortable with self-billing then just stall on the requests to do so. The agency might squeal some but it's hardly a deal breaker.

Personally I'm not happy where the self-billing is linked to electronic sign-off of timesheets and no paper trail to settle "computer says no" arguments.



Tut tut. Naughty them and naughty you.

Oh.

Right you are Contreras

[cojak]

I've put this in the advice stickies.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post1687853

[cojak]

And Malvolio replied.

Good plan but as I have pointed out severla times, you can make any such agreement a condition of trade. So if you won't agree to using our self-billng system then we won't take this any further - which makes a formal agreement just a little bit moot.

As for not raising invoices, your invoices have to numbered sequentially. You can't drop out just because you choose to use someone else's RA as an invoice, plus if you are using a genuine self-billing arrangement (as, for example, selling widgets to a factory on demand) you will have agreed a mutually acceptable invoice tracking process; hence you keep your own copies. The only rule is that you do not submit them to your client for payment.

[cojak]

Which means that I don't have to correct my previous invoices.

The HMRC website is VERY clear on this point though Mal (not allowing duplicate tax points). You can bring money into your account via Sales rather than Invoice Receipt.

[BolshieBastard]

Surely it feeeeels more correct to not use self bill. Do your own invoices, and make sure to put your company logo on them. On the invoice state which deliverable you are invoicing for( amongst the deliverables you have in your contract schedule).

Would a legitimate business let another business generate its invoices?

SB is fully acknowledged by hmrc where the arrangements meet their criteria for such. Therefore, yes, a legitimate business may use it.

Do you serious think having your company logo on an invoice you raise carries more weight as far as hmrc are concerned as an SB recognised by them? Really!?

So I enter it as Sales rather than invoice receipt?

Recording income; must I create invoices? - FreeAgent

Oh well, lesson learned for next time.

Effectively then you marry the sales to the SB invoice \ remittance advice.

Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
Good plan but as I have pointed out severla times, you can make any such agreement a condition of trade. So if you won't agree to using our self-billng system then we won't take this any further - which makes a formal agreement just a little bit moot.

As for not raising invoices, your invoices have to numbered sequentially. You can't drop out just because you choose to use someone else's RA as an invoice, plus if you are using a genuine self-billing arrangement (as, for example, selling widgets to a factory on demand) you will have agreed a mutually acceptable invoice tracking process; hence you keep your own copies. The only rule is that you do not submit them to your client for payment.

There's no legal requirement to use sequentially numbered invoices. Obviously, it makes accounting and keeping track of income \ expenditure easier. My invoices when Im not using SB run consecutively.

When Im on SB, there's clearly a break from my invoicing sequence to that used by the agency. And guess what, I havent been pulled up about it or fined or had fire and brimestone befall me.

[cojak]

There's no legal requirement to use sequentially numbered invoices. Obviously, it makes accounting and keeping track of income \ expenditure easier. My invoices when Im not using SB run consecutively.

When Im on SB, there's clearly a break from my invoicing sequence to that used by the agency. And guess what, I havent been pulled up about it or fined or had fire and brimestone befall me.

Actually, I think there is BB, at least when I started contracting I remember reading that there WAS a legal requirement to use sequentially numbered invoices. Which is the reason for my creating duplicate invoices the way I do.

Reconciling income via Sales with SB invoices doesn't break that rule however, so I understand now how to marry the 2 (seemingly) disparate systems.

[cojak]

Found it...
HM Revenue & Customs

5.1 What details must I include on a VAT invoice?

You must show the following details on any VAT invoices you issue:

• a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document
• ...

But further down the page...!

5.5 Do I always have to issue an invoice?

No. You do not have to issue a VAT invoice to a registered person if:

• your customer operates a self-billing arrangement or you issue authenticated receipts. Notice 700/62 Self Billing and Notice 708 Buildings and Construction provide full details.
• you make a gift of goods on which VAT is due.
• you sell goods under one of the VAT second-hand schemes. You will find details of the special invoices you have to use in Notice 718 Margin Schemes for second-hand goods, works of art, antiques and collectors’ items.
• your invoice is only for exempt or zero rated sales within the UK

So sorry Mal you're wrong. (Although it does grate a little that self-billing was put there for the construction industry...)

And creating but not issuing is so untidy - I'm quite happy now to reconcile income/Sales to SB invoice.