Client Guide to IR35

[Coalman]

Does anyone know or have a succinct guide to IR35 from the clients side?

Rather than inventing the wheel, I was hoping something exists to hand to clients to improve their knowledge of IR35, and explain why, as contractors, we have to do things differently.

And yes, I have tried the search function.

And yes, I have trawled the web - lots of guides for contractors, but none for clients.

[northernladuk]

I see where you are coming from but I don't quite think this is the way. IR35 is your problem not the clients. They want someone in to do the work on their terms, how you run your finances is not really their problem.

What you want to be doing is educating them on how you wanted to be treated as a business. If they treat you as a proper business IR35 will not be an issue.

To list what puts you outside IR35 and insist they adhere to them will unwind very quickly in an investigation and leave you probably worse off than you started.

And yes, I have trawled the web - lots of guides for contractors, but none for clients.

Doesn't this kind of say something?

[jamesbrown]

Does anyone know or have a succinct guide to IR35 from the clients side?

Rather than inventing the wheel, I was hoping something exists to hand to clients to improve their knowledge of IR35, and explain why, as contractors, we have to do things differently.

And yes, I have tried the search function.

And yes, I have trawled the web - lots of guides for contractors, but none for clients.

I do recall reading some bullet-point guides for clients (or, rather, how to convince clients) at the back of some accountants own guides on IR35. Nixon Williams perhaps?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I have to say that I think NLUK is right and I am not sure that end clients having a more detailed knowledge of IR35 would help your cause - I would think that they wouldn't really care; clients take on contractors to save themselves hassle not to get involved in stuff like IR35

[Coalman]

Agreed - but I'm trotting out the same comments again and again, and just getting fed up with repeating myself so was looking for a cop out!

We are addressing the problem and educating the client, but its the response to 'Why?' I was after. The current client has contractors on both umbrella and Ltd Co, so the contractors have different attitudes (ignoring the ones that have been here 5, 10, 15+ years!!).

I was hoping to get something off the web to provide to the client, but will have to talk it through with them directly - they have been very understanding, once the issue has been highlighted.

[SueEllen]

Agreed - but I'm trotting out the same comments again and again, and just getting fed up with repeating myself so was looking for a cop out!

We are addressing the problem and educating the client, but its the response to 'Why?' I was after. The current client has contractors on both umbrella and Ltd Co, so the contractors have different attitudes (ignoring the ones that have been here 5, 10, 15+ years!!).

I was hoping to get something off the web to provide to the client, but will have to talk it through with them directly - they have been very understanding, once the issue has been highlighted.

Money - how are you going to show the client that their failure to comply with IR35 will costs them money and in some cases a great deal?

Off my head I know there are cases of a contractor trying to claim employment rights, and he is likely not to have been the only one as most court cases don't go to court. This costs the client money in legal fees.

Not having properly defined rules that are written down of how to separate contractors from permanent staff, and making sure the agencies write proper contracts to ensure they look and act like service providers will cost them money in terms of the time their staff spend when HRMC come knocking. If you do a search you can find cases where HMRC was just referred to written documents.

[malvolio]

Agreed - but I'm trotting out the same comments again and again, and just getting fed up with repeating myself so was looking for a cop out!

We are addressing the problem and educating the client, but its the response to 'Why?' I was after. The current client has contractors on both umbrella and Ltd Co, so the contractors have different attitudes (ignoring the ones that have been here 5, 10, 15+ years!!).

I was hoping to get something off the web to provide to the client, but will have to talk it through with them directly - they have been very understanding, once the issue has been highlighted.

It's likely not what you're expecting, but you can always start here - Working with freelancers - clients | PCG

[BolshieBastard]

Does anyone know or have a succinct guide to IR35 from the clients side?

Rather than inventing the wheel, I was hoping something exists to hand to clients to improve their knowledge of IR35, and explain why, as contractors, we have to do things differently.

And yes, I have tried the search function.

And yes, I have trawled the web - lots of guides for contractors, but none for clients.

LOL! But very nice try!

Do you seriously think client HR's are going to be bothered how IR35 impacts contractors!?

They go out to agencies for contractors because they dont want to take on employees but then treat contractors the very same as those employees they dont want to take on!

[Wanderer]

You have to hit them with something they CAN understand. Spin it to sound like you are doing them a favour by trying your best to structure your working practices in order to be seen as "in business of your own account". This will keep the engagement outside the terms of the Agency Workers Regulations with all it's unwanted red tape and that's a positive thing for the client.

It's a mutually beneficial agreement. The client avoids the AWR and it steers you away from working practices which are bad for IR35. Just don't mention the IR35 angle, it's nothing to do with them and they won't give a tulip.

[Ignis Fatuus]

LOL! But very nice try!

Do you seriously think client HR's are going to be bothered how IR35 impacts contractors!?

They go out to agencies for contractors because they dont want to take on employees but then treat contractors the very same as those employees they dont want to take on!

Of course. What they want is employees with employees' duties but without employees' rights.

They're only trying to have it both ways, a natural human desire - like agencies who want you to assume personal liability, wanting the advantages of dealing with a Ltd Co without the disadvantages.

As in most cases of dealing with someone who wants to impose on you their power to eat their cake and have it, the only real fix is your power to say no.