QDOS cranking up the pressure with IR35 insurance

[psychocandy]

Anyone else had a letter from QDOS?

I'm with them for PE ins but had a letter from them recently, all doom and gloom about IR35 investigations etc and how I should have their IR35 insurance (and offering a discount for lump sum payment).

One thing that struck me - price is same as it was a year ago. Surely, if, in the last 12 months, there was an increased risk of IR35 investigation and payout then, by definition, more people would need to claim and the policy price would need to go up? Sounds like scaremongering to me.

[northernladuk]

We have no evidence of this ever being used on the forums and as I have said before, with any other insurance you buy the price changes with risk and there are a lot of pre-conditions to meet. It doesn't sit right with me that there is a single cost regardless of your conditions, history as a contractor and so on. I kinda pisses me off that I pay the same price as some of the numpties on my site that don't have a clue about IR35 and are so far inside it isn't true.

To be honest I do have it, the cost is neglible against possible savings so it give me a little more piece of mind but still something doesn't sit right.

[nomadd]

We have no evidence of this ever being used on the forums and as I have said before, with any other insurance you buy the price changes with risk and there are a lot of pre-conditions to meet. It doesn't sit right with me that there is a single cost regardless of your conditions, history as a contractor and so on. I kinda pisses me off that I pay the same price as some of the numpties on my site that don't have a clue about IR35 and are so far inside it isn't true.

To be honest I do have it, the cost is neglible against possible savings so it give me a little more piece of mind but still something doesn't sit right.

+1

[moggy]

We have no evidence of this ever being used on the forums and as I have said before, with any other insurance you buy the price changes with risk and there are a lot of pre-conditions to meet. It doesn't sit right with me that there is a single cost regardless of your conditions, history as a contractor and so on. I kinda pisses me off that I pay the same price as some of the numpties on my site that don't have a clue about IR35 and are so far inside it isn't true.

To be honest I do have it, the cost is neglible against possible savings so it give me a little more piece of mind but still something doesn't sit right.

Thats no way to talk about your contractor uk comrades.

I thought it was your lifes work to convert all ir35 effected to outside oh and teach them to use the search function!

[northernladuk]

Thats no way to talk about your contractor uk comrades.

I thought it was your lifes work to convert all ir35 effected to outside oh and teach them to use the search function!

Indeed it is but many people just don't want to know or can be bothered. Thinking about the contractors I have spoken to on the last two gigs only a handful know the basics about IR35, have PI/PL and know what the PCG is. We get a lot of daft questions on here with little or no research but at least they are trying which a large percentage don't.

[psychocandy]

We have no evidence of this ever being used on the forums and as I have said before, with any other insurance you buy the price changes with risk and there are a lot of pre-conditions to meet. It doesn't sit right with me that there is a single cost regardless of your conditions, history as a contractor and so on. I kinda pisses me off that I pay the same price as some of the numpties on my site that don't have a clue about IR35 and are so far inside it isn't true.

To be honest I do have it, the cost is neglible against possible savings so it give me a little more piece of mind but still something doesn't sit right.

Do you pay for the full one i.e .£360 a year?

I'm a PCG member which covers me for investigation costs but not fines (which I think the full PCG one does).

I've always wondered too, like you said, whether if you pay for the insurance, how can they then claim to pay out if you're blatantly outside IR35? Surely there must be some check at the beginning before they allow coverage to ensure they're not covering you for something stupid. Or whether they dont care and will try and wangle out of it if you ever claim?

p.s. anyone on this forum ever been investigated and caught by IR35 even?

[Contreras]

I'm a PCG member which covers me for investigation costs but not fines (which I think the full PCG one does).

It does not cover for fines, only for cost of legal representation.

I've always wondered too, like you said, whether if you pay for the insurance, how can they then claim to pay out if you're blatantly outside IR35?

Even the guilty have a right to be represented.

[Maslins]

Having discussed this kind of thing at length with QDOS recently, a few things I understood:

1) one size fits all pricing - yes, I understand the point that it doesn't make sense when some people will be far more savvy/convincing that they're outside IR35 than others. However, from an admin/pricing point of view, a one size fits all policy is far easier. The hassle of doing a bespoke quote for each client outweighs the possible extra risk...same way most contractor accountants charge a fixed fee, whilst some clients will ask a million annoying questions and others won't!

2) I believe QDOS's IR35 cover protects you against not only the professional fees you might suffer as part of an IR35 investigation, but also the additional taxes if you were found to be inside. Check this, but I think the £360 covers up to £50,000, if the potential tax/NICs at stake is much higher you can pay more for a larger cover.

3) They did also stress to me they think the number of IR35 enquiries will likely rocket soon. There was some evidence to back this up, which I don't doubt...but obviously it's in QDOS's interest to scaremonger a little bit

Overall I decided what they offer is great, so we've partnered up with them to offer their insurances to our clients.

[northernladuk]

Having discussed this kind of thing at length with QDOS recently, a few things I understood:

1) one size fits all pricing - yes, I understand the point that it doesn't make sense when some people will be far more savvy/convincing that they're outside IR35 than others. However, from an admin/pricing point of view, a one size fits all policy is far easier. The hassle of doing a bespoke quote for each client outweighs the possible extra risk...same way most contractor accountants charge a fixed fee, whilst some clients will ask a million annoying questions and others won't!

2) I believe QDOS's IR35 cover protects you against not only the professional fees you might suffer as part of an IR35 investigation, but also the additional taxes if you were found to be inside. Check this, but I think the £360 covers up to £50,000, if the potential tax/NICs at stake is much higher you can pay more for a larger cover.

3) They did also stress to me they think the number of IR35 enquiries will likely rocket soon. There was some evidence to back this up, which I don't doubt...but obviously it's in QDOS's interest to scaremonger a little bit

Overall I decided what they offer is great, so we've partnered up with them to offer their insurances to our clients.

Interesting stuff and thanks for posting. I guess if they do start dealing with more investigations and they find they are paying out more than they should they will quickly re-adjust the pricing and criteria to stop taking on risky customers. I guess time will tell.

[jamesbrown]

Do you pay for the full one i.e .£360 a year?

I'm a PCG member which covers me for investigation costs but not fines (which I think the full PCG one does).

I've always wondered too, like you said, whether if you pay for the insurance, how can they then claim to pay out if you're blatantly outside IR35? Surely there must be some check at the beginning before they allow coverage to ensure they're not covering you for something stupid. Or whether they dont care and will try and wangle out of it if you ever claim?

p.s. anyone on this forum ever been investigated and caught by IR35 even?

My understanding is that PCG insure themselves, not members. As with any coverage, I expect there has to be a reasonable prospect of winning (or some other reason for PCG to pursue it).