Reasonable number of computers?

[DaveB]

I've just bought an iPad and iPhone specifically as I am working on a secure Client site where I am not permitted to connect my own kit or to access a number of web services (banking, email, reference sites etc) for MyCo. The iPad, using the phone as a personal wireless hotspot, will allow me to do that.

I went with the phone / pad combo rather than a 3G iPad cos I got the phone second hand from a mate and the iPad is refurbished, so together costs less than a new iPad 3G and doesn't need an additional data contract.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

Incidentally id be interested to hear where HMRC insist that you need to be able to justify that you couldn't have done your work without it - effectively a "wholly, exclusively and necessarily" test - rather than simply that it is used for the business rather than for personal purposes?

The main test in the words of the HMRC is that no tax charge will exist for a computer "that the individual uses in performing the duties of the employment, and any use for the employee's private purposes is not significant". For more details take a look at;

EIM21613 - Particular benefits: accommodation, supplies and services: meaning of not significant use for private purposes

Seriously, only you really know the primary motivation of buying all this IT kit - sounds to me like you understand all this, and that the primary purpose is for the business use - in which case buy whatever you need to run your business in the way YOU think is most suitable.

[northernladuk]

Seriously, only you really know the primary motivation of buying all this IT kit - sounds to me like you understand all this, and that the primary purpose is for the business use - in which case buy whatever you need to run your business in the way YOU think is most suitable.

This is the problem though, people will try and justify it to themselves with a slightly skewed argument. The key here is to be objective and that is very difficult. Sometimes a complete stranger can get a better view on the situation... a good example was right below...

I've just bought an iPad and iPhone specifically as I am working on a secure Client site where I am not permitted to connect my own kit or to access a number of web services (banking, email, reference sites etc) for MyCo. The iPad, using the phone as a personal wireless hotspot, will allow me to do that.

Maybe it is the way it is written but you are not telling me that banking and email is primarly business use of an iPad? Seriously? You do not spend more time personally on it than checking your bank and email once in a blue moon, both of which you can do in an evening and on your iPhone?
A load of guys have them here and they tried the whole banking, researching argument and by their own admission, to a person, now admit they don't do anything but browse the web on it. My stance is pretty obvious on this whole issue but I see up to 8 guys who's argument has failed and that many againt that didn't buy one as they can't justify it for business. 100% failure of the business justification.

People can justify what they want and put it through their business for a whopping saving of 20% at the end of the day, am just playing devils advocate on the whole thing so people think a little.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

Wait for it northernladuk, hopefully DaveB will be posting his thoughts on how this constitutes primary business use shortly

[DaveB]

This is the problem though, people will try and justify it to themselves with a slightly skewed argument. The key here is to be objective and that is very difficult. Sometimes a complete stranger can get a better view on the situation... a good example was right below...



Maybe it is the way it is written but you are not telling me that banking and email is primarly business use of an iPad? Seriously? You do not spend more time personally on it than checking your bank and email once in a blue moon, both of which you can do in an evening and on your iPhone?
A load of guys have them here and they tried the whole banking, researching argument and by their own admission, to a person, now admit they don't do anything but browse the web on it. My stance is pretty obvious on this whole issue but I see up to 8 guys who's argument has failed and that many againt that didn't buy one as they can't justify it for business. 100% failure of the business justification.

People can justify what they want and put it through their business for a whopping saving of 20% at the end of the day, am just playing devils advocate on the whole thing so people think a little.

It is when I need to be able to respond to other clients and prospective clients in business hours, and when a good number of the reference sites I use are typically blacklisted by most if not all of the major web filtering solutions. ( Think security forums, mailing list archives, vulnerability disclosure lists, hacking specific sites etc).

[Old Greg]

This is the problem though, people will try and justify it to themselves with a slightly skewed argument. The key here is to be objective and that is very difficult. Sometimes a complete stranger can get a better view on the situation... a good example was right below...



Maybe it is the way it is written but you are not telling me that banking and email is primarly business use of an iPad? Seriously? You do not spend more time personally on it than checking your bank and email once in a blue moon, both of which you can do in an evening and on your iPhone?
A load of guys have them here and they tried the whole banking, researching argument and by their own admission, to a person, now admit they don't do anything but browse the web on it. My stance is pretty obvious on this whole issue but I see up to 8 guys who's argument has failed and that many againt that didn't buy one as they can't justify it for business. 100% failure of the business justification.

People can justify what they want and put it through their business for a whopping saving of 20% at the end of the day, am just playing devils advocate on the whole thing so people think a little.

If it's hard to be objective then people are not cut out to be a contractor.

The problem is people think, 'What can I get away with?' and not 'What do I need to run a business?' HMRC may be responsible for setting up this culture but that's then environment so we need to learn to live with it.

I personally have a smart phone, which I principally use for personal use. I use it a little for business purposes and have no doubt that I 'would get away with it' to put it through the books. But if it were a business decision I wouldn't pay for this phone and I don't see why the tax payer should subsidise my phone.

The flip side is that if I need an extra computer, I don't fret over what HMRC will say. I need it to run my business so whay would my business not buy it? If HMRC want to question it then they can do so and I will look them straight in the eyes and tell them why the business needed to make this purchase.

As with so many things in contracting, it is about the mind set, or rather the separate mindsets on Me and MyCo Ltd.

So in summary. If you need it for business, buy it through the company. If you don't, buy it personally..

[Greg@CapitalCity]

People can justify what they want and put it through their business for a whopping saving of 20% at the end of the day, am just playing devils advocate on the whole thing so people think a little.

Yep, just remember, if the motivation for buying an ipad is business-driven, but it ends up not being useful for business, this in itself does not make it an un-claimable business expense - it just makes it a bad business decision. Its like those swiss balls I bought for the office a few years back - now consigned to the storage room.

[Old Greg]

Yep, just remember, if the motivation for buying an ipad is business-driven, but it ends up not being useful for business, this in itself does not make it an un-claimable business expense - it just makes it a bad business decision. Its like those swiss balls I bought for the office a few years back - now consigned to the storage room.

+1 my netbook turned out not to be a great buy. Unless anyone knows how to improve performance for not much investment?

[doomage]

It does appear, in practice, that many ltd co. contractor businesses are primarily involved in posting on CUK all day. Therefore any device which enables this primary business function must surely be claimable.

[northernladuk]

It does appear, in practice, that many ltd co. contractor businesses are primarily involved in posting on CUK all day. Therefore any device which enables this primary business function must surely be claimable.

We have a winner... shame it is free

Agree with Greg, DaveB and OG and been an interesting debate but back to reality...

Chances of being investigated = Slim to nil
Chances of investigator being bothered = negligble
Chances of befudling investigator with tech jargon he doesn't understand = high
Penalty if disallowed = neglible
Chances of investigator getting ipad out to do some adding up = high..

Fill your boots..

Hows that?