No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Emigre]

I must be missing something and not understanding the process.

So, we lobbyed for a change to the finance bill, this was rejected. The finance bill reading will not have mention of this rejected change so unsure if anything to do with S58 will be discussed and if it is not sure how much importance it will be given as it was not included.

So where do we go from here? It would be very useful to know the next steps at a very high level and potential timeline, appreciating things can obviously change.

Do you remember Gordon Broon announcing that he would be selling gold deposits? Or whichever regulatory body announcing they would be closing Nick Leeson's open positions? They were both disasters with Brown getting far less than he should have and the losses at Barings ending up 2 or 3 times what they should have been had slightly more covert approaches been taken.

The NTRT team have a long term strategy to deal with our situation in a number of different directions, not all Parliamentary, but for obvious reasons they are not going to be published on a public board. As DR has said, this week's newsletter should provide some help.

There is always far more going on behind the scenes that cannot be published, but as a group no stone is being left unturned. The way Parliament works (is that the right word?) is far from obvious or for that matter satisfactory. It seems too easy for Government to push important matters into the long grass when on a principle basis they should be tackling it directly.

In general, it is morally repugnant that an MP can make one statement whilst in Oppsition and take a completely opposite stance once in Government. There are a few that can see that what happened in 2008 was wrong and are prepared to stand up and be counted. However, there are also those whose principles appear to be able to bought in the name of potential damage to the Exchequer. Right now, more damage is being done to the name of the Exchequer by David Gauke's continued, and unjustified, resistance to meeting the NTRT team.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Does anyone have any idea how HMRC are getting on setting up their separate unit to make us bankrupt? How long do we have until they start sending letters (which I know can be appealed)?

NTRT are maintaining close contact with Montpelier and we've had contact with all the other promoters.

We will report progress on Tax Tribunals/Europe in the newsletter whenever there is anything to report.

At the moment there isn't much to report, and I don't think anyone knows what HMRC are doing.

[moira under the stairs]

At the moment there isn't much to report, and I don't think anyone knows what HMRC are doing.

Including HMRC

[the great escape]

I must be missing something and not understanding the process.

So, we lobbyed for a change to the finance bill, this was rejected. The finance bill reading will not have mention of this rejected change so unsure if anything to do with S58 will be discussed and if it is not sure how much importance it will be given as it was not included.

So where do we go from here? It would be very useful to know the next steps at a very high level and potential timeline, appreciating things can obviously change.

My knee-jerk reaction also SD but on closer examination we really are just getting started than approaching the finish. To have our issue and the law overturned so quickly may have/would have been an embrassment to the political system as a whole. Through committees, discussions and parliamentary publications, MPs should find some middle ground to debate the retrospective precedent they've created and find some agreeable, acceptable way to remove it. At least 3 MPs have voiced their concerns, if not objections, in the House so in principle we must be on the right track. Else they've got to retrospectively tax everybody who's scheme is being challenged. And that's never gonna happen.

It's just another year of this and I won't have any fingernails left and may start taking sleeping pills. But I guess tax sometimes is taxing and we must suffer for our art.

[helen7]

The longer this goes on, the more money it is costing.

Even with a CTD we are only getting very small interest rate (0.75% I think) on our deposit. A quick google shows there are fixed bonds that are paying 5%.

On a 200k CTD, that is a loss of 8.5k a year.

So in summary....If you haven't joined; 200 quid to NTRT is a very small amount to pay if they get this thing moving quicker!! The thought of waiting another 5 years drives me nuts.

[OnYourBikeGB]

The longer this goes on, the more money it is costing.

Even with a CTD we are only getting very small interest rate (0.75% I think) on our deposit. A quick google shows there are fixed bonds that are paying 5%.

On a 200k CTD, that is a loss of 8.5k a year.

So in summary....If you haven't joined; 200 quid to NTRT is a very small amount to pay if they get this thing moving quicker!! The thought of waiting another 5 years drives me nuts.

Makes me semi-seriously wonder if we should be asking Labour to agree to reverse it when they back come to power, if its still kicking around. Governments come and go, but Hector's shambles rumbles on.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Makes me semi-seriously wonder if we should be asking Labour to agree to reverse it when they back come to power, if its still kicking around. Governments come and go, but Hector's shambles rumbles on.

I doubt we'd get any firm commitment and, even if they did get back in, Treasury mandarins would soon make them see "sense".

Governments come and go, but the real power brokers stay the same.

[BolshieBastard]

I must be missing something and not understanding the process.

So, we lobbyed for a change to the finance bill, this was rejected. The finance bill reading will not have mention of this rejected change so unsure if anything to do with S58 will be discussed and if it is not sure how much importance it will be given as it was not included.

So where do we go from here? It would be very useful to know the next steps at a very high level and potential timeline, appreciating things can obviously change.

I dont want to pee on anyone's chips but the approach is non productive in the sense of change.

You have an amendment tabled in committee stage but it is withdrawn (probing amendments are used to elicit concession from government and not just to 'raise' awareness. That, awareness, is virtually pointless in the scheme of things if you dont take action at report stage.)

You then have report stage, the final stage to get any amendment implemented before 3rd and final reading of the Bill. At 3rd reading, absolutely no changes can be made. The bill cant be changed by the HoL or sent back to the HoC by the Lords. If they did, this would amount to a challenge by the HoL to the constitution (which they have already lost) and result in the Government invoking the Parliament Act to steamroller the Bill through.

This wont happen though as I have said previously, the HoL will not challenge the Government on a Finance Bill.

If no amendment is tabled at report stage, the chance of getting any Parliamentary change to the bill is gone, finished, kaput.

All that remains is Europe. So, Im guessing it all a ploy to get this before Strasbourg.

[smalldog]

Thanks for newsletter, very informative! Disappointed by my spineless mp, the outspoken mr afiriyie who since his anti retro rant hasn't even had the decency to respond to my multiple attempts! Arse in my view, won't get my vote next election, and that's from a true blue!

[BrilloPad]

NTRT are maintaining close contact with Montpelier and we've had contact with all the other promoters.

We will report progress on Tax Tribunals/Europe in the newsletter whenever there is anything to report.

At the moment there isn't much to report, and I don't think anyone knows what HMRC are doing.

Many thanks

The longer this goes on, the more money it is costing.

Even with a CTD we are only getting very small interest rate (0.75% I think) on our deposit. A quick google shows there are fixed bonds that are paying 5%.

On a 200k CTD, that is a loss of 8.5k a year.

So in summary....If you haven't joined; 200 quid to NTRT is a very small amount to pay if they get this thing moving quicker!! The thought of waiting another 5 years drives me nuts.

Agree strongly - though as I cannot pay anything time is the best thing for me.

Just to repeat :-

So in summary....If you haven't joined; 200 quid to NTRT is a very small amount to pay