No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Whether you have joined the website or not

We want to hear from anyone who has written to their MP or is willing to do so.

Just drop me an email.

Thanks
DR

donkeyrhubarb AT rocketmail.com

[OnYourBikeGB]

Personally I would discuss a deal as I want to put this behind me and move on. However HMRC have made their position quite clear. In other words, what either of us think does not matter.

But they are making a huge mistake. I want my own appeal tribunal. I bet the rest of you do too. My circumstances are unique. We are all individuals. (Awaits obvious response).

Yes, we are all individuals. Couldn't let you down there, BP. These S58ers don't know their Python.

I agree, HMRC have made it very clear, there's no deal on the table. We seem to be getting some momentum and getting through the defences, and it's going to become harder and harder to fob us off.

Personally, I don't want a deal, because they have made my life fairly miserable over the past 10 years, and I want them to be held to account. If a few careers get ruined out of this, and they have to face the uncertain future we have, then they won't find any sympathy here. But it's not just about revenge, if they get to cut a deal we leave it ok for them to do it again to the next Joe Bloggs. It's an abuse of power, and they should be held to account.

I fully understand why not everyone feels the same way, it's just my opinion.

[BrilloPad]

Yes, we are all individuals. Couldn't let you down there, BP. These S58ers don't know their Python.

I agree, HMRC have made it very clear, there's no deal on the table. We seem to be getting some momentum and getting through the defences, and it's going to become harder and harder to fob us off.

Personally, I don't want a deal, because they have made my life fairly miserable over the past 10 years, and I want them to be held to account. If a few careers get ruined out of this, and they have to face the uncertain future we have, then they won't find any sympathy here. But it's not just about revenge, if they get to cut a deal we leave it ok for them to do it again to the next Joe Bloggs. It's an abuse of power, and they should be held to account.

I fully understand why not everyone feels the same way, it's just my opinion.

I agree with everything you have said. Its just that for me, facing bankruptcy while looking after 2 disabled children is not nice. I prefer closure. But it does not matter - I have no choice but to fight the full way.

Not sure if I should have written that as Mr B is probably going for a now.

[Dieselpower]

HMRC deal

Yes, we are all individuals. Couldn't let you down there, BP. These S58ers don't know their Python.

I agree, HMRC have made it very clear, there's no deal on the table. We seem to be getting some momentum and getting through the defences, and it's going to become harder and harder to fob us off.

Personally, I don't want a deal, because they have made my life fairly miserable over the past 10 years, and I want them to be held to account. If a few careers get ruined out of this, and they have to face the uncertain future we have, then they won't find any sympathy here. But it's not just about revenge, if they get to cut a deal we leave it ok for them to do it again to the next Joe Bloggs. It's an abuse of power, and they should be held to account.

I fully understand why not everyone feels the same way, it's just my opinion.

If the below is true then HMRC will have little choice but to quietly offer a deal - whether we accept it or not is another matter. The fact is that we are gaining genuine and substantial traction and momentum with our campaign - a lot of MPs are supporting us.

I had a chat with a retired tax lawyer (ex magic circle) today and here was his thinking on the tax courts matter:

1. HMRC issue 3000 Closure notices for EACH year - so possibly 10,000-12,000 total
2. All the different promoters appeal (which they are doing)
3. Therefore the cases need to be heard at the First Tier Tax Tribunal (FTT)
4. HMRC then have 2 choices - a or b
a. Write to 3000 people asking us to abide by a single "lead case" - we will obviously tell them no
b. Just take a TEST case to court and if they win that one (not a foregone conclusion by the way) then they try to pressurise us into not proceeding with our cases - again we will tell them no.
5. The FTT can only handle 40ish cases at a time, not 10,000. Not 3,000.
6. He noted that there are a. lots of different promoters. b. all schemes were not at all identical c. all "individual" cases are by no means identical.
He suggests that HMRC may have shot themselves in the foot here. Only a new "law" (eg "Thou shallt not have your day in court") would really assist them. Or if they manage to convince a judge that our schemes are all identical (which they are patently not)

One of the basic premises of Human Rights in this country is to have "our day in court" - not to vicariously enjoy the day thru a test or lead case - but to have an opportunity to have our individual circumstances heard by a judge. Its a basic Human Right, and I personally have been in court and seen how judges aim to ensure that right stays with us. (in exactly the same context of arguments by one set of parties that their circumstances are all in fact different, and NOT identical

[SantaClaus]

Justice is the only answer

Well done. Why should we do a deal. We did nothing wrong and besides, unless it was a very small % of what the majority owe people still would struggle to cough up...

All or nothing as far as I'm concerned!

Agree.

If people on this forum believe (like me) that what has happened is a serious miscarriage of justice, then the only answer is for it to be righted. Not some half baked deal with HMRC that may or may not happen.

[VictorValiant]

Nothing New Under the Sun

"Filling out his tax return for the year 1882 , Conan Doyle recorded a total income of only £154, which left him, fortuitously, with no tax to pay. The disbelieving inspector marked it "Most unsatisfactory" and sent it back. When he re-submitted it Conan Doyle could not resist adding "I entirely agree". A subsequent inspection of his ledgers failed to unearth any further income and the return was eventually accepted."

..............in the days before time travel.........

[Ninja]

Sympathy for HMRC

A long time ago a wise old man told me that if I was looking for sympathy that I'd find it in the dictionary between sh!t and syphilis

[the great escape]

Evening up the odds

What's positive about our situation is that MPs are no stranger to the circumstances which have landed us here. There's growing concern that retrospection is creeping into govt. policy all too much. There's many MPs out there that are geuinely opposed to retrospective taxing when it comes to tax avoidance and for justifiable reasons. Another classic example...

Clause 67: 16 Jun 2009: Public Bill Committees - TheyWorkForYou

They just need to be rallied together into a majority regarding our specific case. Some will be behind us on principle anyway.
And with the growing scale of publicity thanks to the Whitehouse canpaign, it could well afford others the oppurtunity to reconsider their position 'now more [NTRT] facts have come to light'. Then it's just left to root out who perpetrated the myth. Politics is no stranger to scandal and 'straw men'.

3000 contractors get clobbered but GSK gets to kick it's tin-can of multi-million pound tax responsibilities down the road. That's fair HMRC. But if some of you face a similar 'kick' for misrepresentation then I guess that's fair as well.

[Buzby]

Reply for MP

I have had another reply from my MP, standard response from Gauke. Also my MP has looked at notoretrotax.org.uk and positive words about an amendment. full details sent to Whitehouse and DR.

[nevergiveup]

I have had another reply from my MP, standard response from Gauke. Also my MP has looked at notoretrotax.org.uk and positive words about an amendment. full details sent to Whitehouse and DR.

Nice start to the week!