No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Alba]

Confirmation

Even if you're right I'd be careful. I've heard from several people recently that HMRC are increasingly playing hardball with refunds of overpaid tax.

Can confirm, HMRC are refusing to pay back my overpaid tax due to the "Open Investigations".

Was told once these have been closed off, and if any monies are due I will be paid then.

[lucozade]

got a refund of £4K from HMRC just before Christmas. I had requested it in October but the system can't automatically do refunds if you have a reoccurring direct debit setup. Once I cancelled that the refund was processed.

I even spoke to them over the telephone and didn't get an impression of them playing hardball.

This new proposal for forcing tax payers to cough up first before anything else - surely the whole of the UK needs to write to their MPs not just us.

Are NTRT planning an MP letter for this issue?

[bstar1]

Are NTRT planning an MP letter for this issue?[/QUOTE]


How about a demonstration ....

[DonkeyRhubarb]

This new proposal for forcing tax payers to cough up first before anything else - surely the whole of the UK needs to write to their MPs not just us.

Are NTRT planning an MP letter for this issue?

Whitehouse are on the case. They have been involved in previous consultations, so know the ropes.

[Samatra]

Will the new DOTAS proposals defiantly go through?
Is there anything to be gained by mailing MP’s on the committee to let them know how unfair this is?
Can Whitehouse mail the supportive MP’s to let them know of yet another unfair rule that MHRC are trying to push through

Surely this will affect many people not only us. I would imagine there will be lots of people and organizations lobbying MP about this proposal

[Fireship]

Unfortunately that is not true. Proposal 1 on page 15 goes a LOT further than "followers".

Under Proposal 1, they can issue immediate payment notices to users of any scheme registered under DOTAS. That means most schemes operating after 2004.

It is clear that they are looking for a quick and dirty way to deal with the 65,000 open case backlog.

It would be interesting to get a legal opinion on this as it would seem to contravene a number human rights laws in so much that it allows HMRC to completely ignore due process. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty (criminal and civil law differs but that doesn’t necessarily mean certain HR provisions don’t apply).

It’s one thing to allow a clarification to existing law (which was in fact a retrospective change), however this grants HMRC the power to circumvent the law!! I’m no expert but I’m not aware of any similar provisions within law except where there is a threat of physical danger to person regarded as vulnerable!

What’s really annoying is this wouldn’t be of any concern had we not been deliberately cheated out of our day in court!! Maybe Gauke is onto something when he bangs on about our situation being wholly exceptional, there is nothing wholly exceptional about the planning we used but our treatment at the hands of HMRC and two faced politicians has been nothing but wholly exceptional!

[Cantthinkof1]

Which website?

Hi DR, So if you joined the scheme pre 2004 you are in the clear, I took this from a disclosure website and it makes reference to 2006?:

"From 1 August 2006 it is necessary to consider whether an income tax, corporation tax, or capital gains tax scheme or product should be disclosed to HMRC under the DOTAS rules."

IF that is the case then for a majority of us we are probably not affected?

I also dont see any mention of time to pay or what happens if the taxpayer does not have the funds to cover any follower notice in the legislation, this is back to the "can HMRC bankrupt you for pre-payment of a postponed liability". I assume this will be flushed as part of the bill debate.

Smalldog, may I ask which website mentioned 1st August 2006 ? - I came out of the scheme late 2006 so would mean a huge difference to me! Certainly looking like 2014 will be monumental!!

[smalldog]

Smalldog, may I ask which website mentioned 1st August 2006 ? - I came out of the scheme late 2006 so would mean a huge difference to me! Certainly looking like 2014 will be monumental!!

Hi, do some searching yourself but DOTAS started in 2004 and then was then widened in 2006, to me its not completely clear what part affects us:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...e-guidance.pdf

But this extract from the link suggest the pre 2006 was only limited to employment, we werent employed and not sure if we were caught by the "certain financial products" term:

2.3.2 Summary: Income tax, corporation tax and capital gains tax

When the disclosure regime was introduced in 2004, disclosure was limited in
scope to tax arrangements concerning employment or certain financial products.
This was widened with effect from 1st August 2006 to the whole of income tax,
corporation tax and capital gains tax.

PS - I also left it in 2006!

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

In comedy, timing is everything

For what it's worth, when you look at the facts leading up to s.58 the following is true:-

HMRC first discussed the Padmore option at a meeting on 1st November 2007. Interestingly in that year what was then the Pre-Budget Report was delivered by Alistair Darling on 9th October of that year. Since then and even with the advent of the Autumn Statement, none have been that early.

Since 1982 there has not been a single report that happened before November except the one which preceeded the meeting of HMRC on 1st Nov in 2007. I'm excluding Summer Statements for obvious reasons.

Odd isn't it that the hatched job of Padmore II came after that rather and singularly early report by Mr. Darling of that year...

This latest notion was in the Autumn Statement in December 2013 but in both cases, the time when the full affect of what is intended was within months of the point at which legislation is being planned. Now normally I would not be too bothered. But, this is "new" legislation according to the foreword yet is FULLY retrospective back to DOTAS which is either 2004 or 2006 depending on how HMRC decide to trap you. In any event it is very retro. A consultation period of 1 month for an "act" which is fully retro for at least 8 years when it was announced in principle in December 2013 seems like a veiled attempt to get this on the books so as to solve the FACT that HMRC are actually the ones who for the most part have allowed claims, enquiries and challenges to drag on for years!

I looked at HMRC's website today on the matter of enquries, disputes, appeals and settlements. There is nothing, not one word even by way of reference to what they would like to do that would give ANY taxpayer a clue aboiut the storm they are brewing. It beggars belief. Their own directions on matters at hand today are totally at odds with what they are actually intending.

So even though HMRC know what they are planning to do their own taxpayer infomational site is silent on the matter. Ever been mugged? Well if not, it looks like you're about to be. And I don't mean those stuffed by s.58. I'm referring to some 65,000 folks who are about to find that HMRC are about to become the Judiciary by Default.

[BrilloPad]

How about a demonstration ....

NTRT have a demo planned. Its called downing streak. 2000 of us running naked to no10. Its on April 1st.

Take the tiger(the press) by the tail and you never know what will happen.