No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[reckless]

Supportive MP

I have received a reply to my latest letter from my (Labour) MP, who has been very supportive throughout. She is willing to raise questions regarding section 58/HMRC's malpractice/Gauke's duplicity and hypocrisy, in the House when it resumes in the Autumn.

It is refreshing to see that some elected members are actually willing to represent their constituents.

I'll pass on the details to Whitehouse.

KBO

[OnYourBikeGB]

I have received a reply to my latest letter from my (Labour) MP, who has been very supportive throughout. She is willing to raise questions regarding section 58/HMRC's malpractice/Gauke's duplicity and hypocrisy, in the House when it resumes in the Autumn.

It is refreshing to see that some elected members are actually willing to represent their constituents.

I'll pass on the details to Whitehouse.

KBO

My own MP has also been very supportive, and has written to Gauke to suggest he meets with NTRT.

[GripRacing]

Reply from Tory MP

My own MP has also been very supportive, and has written to Gauke to suggest he meets with NTRT.

Just had a reply from David Tredinnick, Conservative, responding to the latest information I sent on to him:

"I will go back to David Gauke at the Treasury as you suggest and will let you know when I hear from him."

Which I'm OK with, as his previous response was "I am sorry that I cannot be of further assistance".

Like most of us I have no idea what's really going on behind closed doors, or how all of this works, but that's why we have Whitehouse and I'll continue to follow both their and NTRT's guidance.

Rgds,

Grip.

[ready_to_leave]

Sorry but I'm getting really hacked off with all this conjecture! Why aren't our side and their side slogging all this tulip out in a 4 sided room! This is really getting daft, time to start throwing punches I reckon

The reason is because there is nothing that can actually be done. The state has overspent for decades and is continuing to do so, there is no option for them in this current mindset but to pursue their citizens for continually more and more tax through progressively more unjust mechanisms until eventually they have consumed the whole of productive society. They care not one jot if their country is effectively destroyed in the process. History is replete with this pattern of behaviour.

If any one thinks pointing out lies and injustices perpetrated on a couple of thousand individuals is going to make the government or the civil service even remotely bothered, or suddenly have an epiphany and decide to do the right thing I suggest you look through any handily available history book. That the state will always cover up, pass legislation to change the rules, persecute whistleblowers, imprison individuals to protect themselves (e.g. Matrix Churchill) and perjure themselves when it comes to things like wars and large scale corruption should be ample evidence of how a bureaucracy treats individuals.

No one cares, no one would care if HMRC staff uploaded a video on Youtube showing them plotting the whole thing in an evil bond villain type way accompanied by mounds of written evidence and a signed confession from Timms and co about their real intentions.

HMRC and the rest of the state has effectively turned into Gollum and when it comes to your earnings as Gollum would say: "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!", and that pretty much sums up how HMRC and the Treasury views your attempts to reduce your growing and punitive tax burden.

[GripRacing]

Wicked and Tricksy?

HMRC and the rest of the state has effectively turned into Gollum and when it comes to your earnings as Gollum would say: "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!", and that pretty much sums up how HMRC and the Treasury views your attempts to reduce your growing and punitive tax burden.

I've had to cope with bigger problems than this before and understand how important our attitude is, especially to those we are trying to negotiate with.

Give up (as suggested above) and accept the strongest hints possible (as suggested above) that we 'Stole it' and are 'Sneaky, Wicked, Tricksy and False' - or continue on positively trying to change something that we all know is wrong and should be corrected.

I invite you all to make your choice.

Grip

[ready_to_leave]

I've had to cope with bigger problems than this before and understand how important our attitude is, especially to those we are trying to negotiate with.

Give up (as suggested above) and accept the strongest hints possible (as suggested above) that we 'Stole it' and are 'Sneaky, Wicked, Tricksy and False' - or continue on positively trying to change something that we all know is wrong and should be corrected.

I invite you all to make your choice.

Grip

Just to clarify. I do not think that we did anything wrong. We are entitled to do what was legal at the time, and that is after all in my mind the basis of the law in a real sense.

Rather I was pointing out how the state obviously views this, and it seems to me the only reason for retrospectivity is because they thought we had somehow tricked them out what was "morally theirs" by underhand legal means. Do you not think at the court hearings we were not repeatedly portrayed in these terms? Do you not think that the government will do whatever it takes to get their way irrespective of the law, or right of expectation? Of course they will and that is what I am trying to get across here.

You can call it giving up if you want, but honestly all this talk of some information that is going to suddenly make HMRC "heads roll" or somehow get the government to reverse legislation is wishful thinking. History (especially recent history) shows that even evidence of whole-scale fabrication of documents and exposure of fraud and corruption on a massive scale are of no importance. There is no accountability, there is no lever you can apply to the state to get the change you want unless you are connected, or part of the in-crowd.

And sadly as far as I can see there is more of this to come in various guises.

[GripRacing]

Just to clarify. I do not think that we did anything wrong. We are entitled to do what was legal at the time, and that is after all in my mind the basis of the law in a real sense.

Rather I was pointing out how the state obviously views this, and it seems to me the only reason for retrospectivity is because they thought we had somehow tricked them out what was "morally theirs" by underhand legal means. Do you not think at the court hearings we were not repeatedly portrayed in these terms? Do you not think that the government will do whatever it takes to get their way irrespective of the law, or right of expectation? Of course they will and that is what I am trying to get across here.

You can call it giving up if you want, but honestly all this talk of some information that is going to suddenly make HMRC "heads roll" or somehow get the government to reverse legislation is wishful thinking. History (especially recent history) shows that even evidence of whole-scale fabrication of documents and exposure of fraud and corruption on a massive scale are of no importance. There is no accountability, there is no lever you can apply to the state to get the change you want unless you are connected, or part of the in-crowd.

And sadly as far as I can see there is more of this to come in various guises.

Thank you for clarifying, but I still refer you to my original reply and I stand by that, as I have done (successfully) in the past.

And that is how I think we all should remain, not how you describe.

Regards,

Grip

[Ninja]

Saving face

It's clear to me, from the responses we are getting back from Gauke & HMRC, that it's not about justice. It's about 'saving face'.
Gauke might be slimy, but he's not stupid. He knows that he's being a hypocrite, but he's trying to preserve what remains of HMRC's reputation, because he has to work with them.
The more we continue to push, then the dam will eventually break, and then the Govt ministers will try to save their own reputations, and hang others out to dry.

Keep up the fight. After all, what have we got to lose, apart from everything. We have no choice.

[lucozade]

Chased my MP

My MP went quiet not long after our meeting. He has been occasionally sending letters but not as helpful as he was initially.

I've chased him up again today asking if he got the Gauke-Rebuttal letter and if he will be responding.

[lucozade]

Cabinet shuffle tomorrow

Any chance Mr Gauke might be shuffled out of his role tomorrow? One can only hope.