Do you/have you actually worked inside of IR35?

[Rabotnik]

I have been looking for my first contract for the past month after resigning from my permanent role, and 3 days before I left my boss suddenly offered me a 3 month contract designing something for a new project the developers have been working on (I'm a SQL guy, used to do BI there). Since the role will be totally different to my previous role, and it's actually taking over from a contractor we hired who my boss then sacked since he wasn't getting along with people, I thought I would be OK with regards to IR35, but now with him adding clause for working 9-6 every day 5 days a week I have the feeling I will not be deemed as outside of IR35.

I'm pretty gutted since it will take quite a chunk from my earnings, and I am kind of annoyed that he offered this to me so close to leaving, since I only got the contract today and I have to start Monday. I sent the contract to be reviewed by someone at QDOS and I am pretty sure they will fail it, but I will only get their reply next week after I have started the contract, so I might not be able to change the contract once I've signed it.

Do/have any of you ever worked inside IR35? Is it better to just drop a IR35-risky contract and look for a safer one? Maybe there is some way I can help myself stay out of IR35? It's a totally different job which I am capable of doing, so it would be silly for my boss to have to start looking for another contractor to do it just because I worked at the company already.

[bobspud]

I have been looking for my first contract for the past month after resigning from my permanent role, and 3 days before I left my boss suddenly offered me a 3 month contract designing something for a new project the developers have been working on (I'm a SQL guy, used to do BI there). Since the role will be totally different to my previous role, and it's actually taking over from a contractor we hired who my boss then sacked since he wasn't getting along with people, I thought I would be OK with regards to IR35, but now with him adding clause for working 9-6 every day 5 days a week I have the feeling I will not be deemed as outside of IR35.

I'm pretty gutted since it will take quite a chunk from my earnings, and I am kind of annoyed that he offered this to me so close to leaving, since I only got the contract today and I have to start Monday. I sent the contract to be reviewed by someone at QDOS and I am pretty sure they will fail it, but I will only get their reply next week after I have started the contract, so I might not be able to change the contract once I've signed it.

Do/have any of you ever worked inside IR35? Is it better to just drop a IR35-risky contract and look for a safer one? Maybe there is some way I can help myself stay out of IR35? It's a totally different job which I am capable of doing, so it would be silly for my boss to have to start looking for another contractor to do it just because I worked at the company already.

Welcome to the business world you are in negotiation.

Bare in mind that the IT chief at HMRC walked out Friday and came back Monday. I doubt he was deemed inside IR35.

Tell your boss that the contract will need to be changed next week and you are happy to continue with the piece of work on the basis that he will accept the changes as required.

Its time for you both to change your mind sets from you being friends with regular benefits to associates...

[Rabotnik]

Welcome to the business world you are in negotiation.

Bare in mind that the IT chief at HMRC walked out Friday and came back Monday. I doubt he was deemed inside IR35.

Tell your boss that the contract will need to be changed next week and you are happy to continue with the piece of work on the basis that he will accept the changes as required.

Its time for you both to change your mind sets from you being friends with regular benefits to associates...

Thanks mate, that's exactly what I thought. He was telling everyone before I left that when I came back they would have to see me as an external service provider and no longer as one of them, but then he pulls this "9-6 every day 5 days a week" bollocks. I even told him that would not be appropriate and he emailed HR anyway and told them to add that. I think he still wants to act as my boss even though I don't work for him any more.

[bobspud]

Thanks mate, that's exactly what I thought. He was telling everyone before I left that when I came back they would have to see me as an external service provider and no longer as one of them, but then he pulls this "9-6 every day 5 days a week" bollocks. I even told him that would not be appropriate and he emailed HR anyway and told them to add that. I think he still wants to act as my boss even though I don't work for him any more.

Your boss is just pissed that he's got to pay for what he had for free. Ask HR what there standard contract is for externals and ask them why they are letting him place constraints in the contract that still imply an employee relationship...

[SallyPlanIT]

It's possible that there may be further issues with regards the IR35 status unless the contract was advertised and open for others to apply for....personal service springs to mind

[Rabotnik]

It's possible that there may be further issues with regards the IR35 status unless the contract was advertised and open for others to apply for....personal service springs to mind

Ah I see, I wasn't aware that was relevant. It was advertised when we originally hired the contractor, but he was just awful to work with, and they could have started hiring again when they sacked him, but this project is supposed to finish phase 1 by Q1 next year, so it made more sense to just hire me.

[northernladuk]

Going back to your previous place of work is an IR35 nightmare. Remember it is not just about contracts, it is about working practices. The guy is no longer your boss, he is your client. The processes you used before are not for you now and so on and so forth. It is highly unlikely that you can understand the subtle differences that apply to you as a contractor if you have been there before as a permie and will slide in to old ways too quickly making yourself a hidden permie.
Not only that but they will treat you like a employee a well so two way problem.

If you are going to contract fly the roost and do it properly rather than pretending and going back to your old place of work.

[Rabotnik]

Going back to your previous place of work is an IR35 nightmare. Remember it is not just about contracts, it is about working practices. The guy is no longer your boss, he is your client. The processes you used before are not for you now and so on and so forth. It is highly unlikely that you can understand the subtle differences that apply to you as a contractor if you have been there before as a permie and will slide in to old ways too quickly making yourself a hidden permie.
Not only that but they will treat you like a employee a well so two way problem.

If you are going to contract fly the roost and do it properly rather than pretending and going back to your old place of work.

I know what you mean, I was fully prepared to go out into the big bad world of contracting, and even arranged to speak to a friend of a friend about getting some work at his company (apart from carpet bombing job sites with my CV). My boss just brought this up on Tuesday and didn't even give me time to think about it or confirm the rate. He just started arranging things with HR in a rush and I didn't even know the rate I would get til yesterday. And he sacked the contractor on Wednesday, so I was somewhat pushed into just taking the role (and the rate is good, so I didn't have a reason to say no).

I have emailed him suggesting we include some amendments from the QDOS example contract, since it looks solid and covers a lot of points. I actually told him we should just use it in the first place since HR were taking so long getting their contract ready.

I think I am mentally prepared to stay out of my old ways there. I am even getting all email there sent only to my business email address so I don't use the company's exchange server, and my old exchange account has been deleted so people can't email me about work I used to do there. And I changed desks just so I don't sit in my old place. I will also dress like a boss from now on, since before I stuck to the company code of casual wear every day.

[northernladuk]

I am even getting all email there sent only to my business email address so I don't use the company's exchange server, and my old exchange account has been deleted so people can't email me about work I used to do there. And I changed desks just so I don't sit in my old place. I will also dress like a boss from now on, since before I stuck to the company code of casual wear every day.

This is what I mean about not understand how to act as a contractor. What desk you sit at and using the companys exchange server are not problems. It is your mind set. It is acceptable, and in fact, mandatory in most cases to use the clients systems and be given laptops etc. You have to know why it is acceptable and when you are pushing boundries.

Nothing you have mentioned above matters.

At the end of the day can't turn down work though.

[Rabotnik]

This is what I mean about not understand how to act as a contractor. What desk you sit at and using the companys exchange server are not problems. It is your mind set. It is acceptable, and in fact, mandatory in most cases to use the clients systems and be given laptops etc. You have to know why it is acceptable and when you are pushing boundries.

Nothing you have mentioned above matters.

At the end of the day can't turn down work though.

Those changes are just so that I and everyone else there is constantly reminded I'm not in the same role anymore, nothing to do with anything legal. What do you mean act like a contractor? What do you think is the biggest difference between permies and contractors?