BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[smalldog]

Hi

He is my MP, I can write to him. Would appreciate any input as to the content.

Regards

Personally I think you wasting your time. I'd expect the response to be that the government/parliament left the matter with the courts to decide and they now have so **** off

[Emigre]

One other thing to stress, that if the original case given to us by HMRC was correct, that we were in the wrong, then we would have exited the scheme and paid what was due at that point. It's entrapment because the advice they offered caused us, even encouraged us, to stay in the scheme. It is not entrapment if their action made no difference, i.e. if we would have stayed in regardless. Entrapment is also as far as I know, only applicable in a criminal case, but their motives were the same.

I thought for one minute that you were suggesting that HMRC are not criminals. Theft is what they do for a living.

[SantaClaus]

From what I've read hmrc are generally hell bent on making things as bas as humanly possible. Reasons I suspect being to make sure you don't ever think of straying from the path again and to inflict a form of punishment for stepping out of line. Logic and reason around the cost of bankrupting you vs. the money to be yielded is not a consideration it seems. So don't think cos you have no discernible assets your safe.

However, the worse off you are, the more bankruptcy will benefit you.

If you don't have any assets, they cant take anything from you and the debt will eventually be written off. If you do have assets such as a house, you have more to lose.

Also, from what I understand, once your affairs are in the hands of the bankruptcy court, HMRC will be just one of a long line of creditors with no preferential treatment over the others.

[Emigre]

However, the worse off you are, the more bankruptcy will benefit you.

If you don't have any assets, they cant take anything from you and the debt will eventually be written off. If you do have assets such as a house, you have more to lose.

Also, from what I understand, once your affairs are in the hands of the bankruptcy court, HMRC will be just one of a long line of creditors with no preferential treatment over the others.

And of course, anyone on a loan scheme may have quite a large accumulated loan by now...

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Bankruptcy

This is an excellent booklet produced by the charity TaxAid.
http://taxaid.org.uk/wp-content/uplo...t-Nov-2011.pdf

See page 22 - "Bankruptcy is good for some people"

[ringodingo]

And of course, anyone on a loan scheme may have quite a large accumulated loan by now...

Am I correct in thinking that if we end up having to pay all the tax being demanded then MP will not be asking those on loan scheme for the extra 3%?

[Fireship]

Things worth highlighting on top of those already mentioned are that HMRC were never able to tell us what we had done wrong, even though we asked. At all times we were open and honest. The one time that HMRC did quote case law, they were wrong, and quoted a case that actually backed our position.

Indeed, when they finally produced a legal argument it was based on Archer-Shee which was proven to be so wrong it was dropped and never mentioned again by HMRC. With that in mind how is it that we were supposed to have reasonable doubt as to our tax position?? Quite the opposite, after years of stalling their only argument was wrong, my tax position was perfectly clear!!!

They tried, they stalled, they lied, they failed! Tax position clear!!! HMRC didn’t have a leg to stand on, we knew it, they knew it, so they went away and invented a whole new argument, one that didn’t even exist and needed a time machine to make it so!!!

Surely there has to be a case to answer given that that HMRC didn’t have a legal argument so had to invent one? The law as it stood meant we had done nothing wrong, years of stalling and intimidation whilst knowing there is no reason for it is nothing short of persecution!

[Fireship]

Some very good points there, OnYourBikeGB. The "entrapment" angle is a big one - the fact that HMRC delayed the process by 7 years to trap us into huge debts and interest charges could not be classed as fair by anyone, especially when the goalposts have moved.

I think the real entrapment issue is the fact that they asked us as individuals to wait on the four test cases that were to go before the tax tribunal knowing full well it would never happen as they were cooking up BN66 which they knew would become law before the test cases would be heard because they deliberately stalled to make it so!!!

They had knowledge of what they were doing, we didn’t, and it was HMRC who asked if we as a group would be willing to wait for the outcome of those cases!!! Entrapment pure and simple!!

If they had disclosed the facts, i.e. we’re cooking up retro and the test cases will never make it to court, however if you demand a hearing before then the outcome will be very different – what do you think would’ve happened???

The fact is they lied and had no intention of going before a tax tribunal, they merely wanted to ensure that we didn’t!

[KiwiGuy]

wow

well interesting times ahead, i havent posted on here since i left the UK in may 2010, mate sent me a message with a copy of the letter.... which will get to my address here in Aus (yes HMRC have my address here, im not hiding or running)

for me my investments are worth tulip all due to the global recession, i havent earned a proper income since 2010 as ive been building a new business and living off the wifes $$

i to are just going to wait n see what happens with MP, then if worse comes to worse, ill just have to pay a little bit over the next 200 years

[not-a-penny]

Why on earth is everyone worried about bankruptcy ? Tax is the only thing that does not get wiped out when your bankrupt. HMRC will obviously carry on collecting the outstanding tax a rate you can afford to pay for all infinity. However, they are extremy unlikely to make anyone bankrupt unless you just arent playing ball. They will always come to a deal over payment before taking such drastic action.

Not true! For the self employed, tax is treated as other debt and does get wiped out with Bankruptcy.

If I owe tax to HMRC can these debts be included bankruptcy