Help - The umbrella i work through is not paying me and has closed down !

[karun2011]

Option 1 - call this in as a crime...
The Thames Valley Crime Ref No. is: CM3870914/11. 0845 850 5505. Keep it friendly, dont take the law into your own hands.

Option 2 - go to court
petition for the bank account to be frozen. This costs about £10k, and the bank account might already be empty. Still, could be worth it if its not.

Option 3 - creditors action
Lodge a creditors action to get the company wound up. This also means lawyers going to court, but costs less.

Option 4 - SFO
Serious Fraud Office (020 7239 7388) and I would encourage you all to do this so it gets on their radar.

Info needed asap
Was your money paid into Barclays Sort: 20-97-09, Acc: 00237272? If not let me know asap.

IN ORDER TO GET ORGANISED
Centralised comms needs to be sorted preferably where we can:
- register in some form;
- cite the amount we have been defrauded;
- take 'donations' and to agree actions as a group.

Can someone recommend something?

Please let others know about the above.

On behalf of...
Andrew W
London

Hi Joelipol

My money was also paid in the same account. They had a standard word document with these details.

[Vallah]

Just as a general rule of fun. In light of the recent Finance Act 2011 and the forthcoming Agency Workers Regulations please be very very careful if looking at offshore schemes.

if you are willing to take the risk then go for it but please go into it with your eyes wide open.

It's good advice of course to enter into any relationship with the maximum amount of information, but I think you will now find that the "offshore schemes" to use a loose catch-all term are now no longer affected by the provisions of the latest Finance Act, and are far less likely to be caught by the provisions of the AWR than traditional umbrella firms.

Anybody using one of the bigger offshore schemes will in most cases receive excellent service, as well as a much higher rate of return on their GCV. They're not everybody's cup of tea of course, but we've serviced many thousands of contractors over the years, none of whom have had any trouble despite the many scare stories about offshore providers.

[davejenkins00]

what about a private facebook group

hi all and particullay andrew who seems to be doing a great job getting organised.

might i suggest creating a private group on facebook that you can administer and decide who you accept, we can then discuss and decide on our best way forward from there?

kind regards
dave

[Pondlife]

So how would you offshore providers demonstrate that 1) your offering is proved to be compliant and that the customer would get no additional tax to pay in the event of an investigation and 2) there is no way that this situation could happen with you?

From what I can see, tract said everything was going to be ok but had no evidence to back this up and have now allegedly done a bunk/gone bust/whatever.

[Sockpuppet]

Now reading that yahoo thread I noticed that one of the directors was possibly linked with a company called "upton contracts ltd" .... you don't think........nah.

[geoff from contracta IOM]

Guarantees

So how would you offshore providers demonstrate that 1) your offering is proved to be compliant and that the customer would get no additional tax to pay in the event of an investigation and 2) there is no way that this situation could happen with you?

From what I can see, tract said everything was going to be ok but had no evidence to back this up and have now allegedly done a bunk/gone bust/whatever.

Well PL I can put potential clients in touch with a chartered tax adviser who has audited our scheme , seen the legal opinion and is an ex employee of HMRC and he is happy to send his clients to us as are numerous accountants practices . As for a guarantee that there would be no additional tax to pay I would ask you if can you guarantee me that if you were investigated you would have no additional tax to pay ? Of course you can't , in business guarantees only exist for the fax machine.

[Pondlife]

Well PL I can put potential clients in touch with a chartered tax adviser who has audited our scheme , seen the legal opinion and is an ex employee of HMRC and he is happy to send his clients to us as are numerous accountants practices .

So no test cases? Has your method been tested in court with one of your clients?

As for a guarantee that there would be no additional tax to pay I would ask you can you guarantee me that if you were investigated you would have no additional tax to pay ? Of course you can't , in business guarantees only exist for the fax machine.

Would you indemify the client against any tax that would be owed as others would do against, for example, IR35?

[geoff from contracta IOM]

So no test cases? Has your method been tested in court with one of your clients? No there have been no test cases and not surprisingly none of our contractors want to be the one to find out and we do everything possible to make sure there is no footprint anywhere of them using our scheme



Would you indemify the client against any tax that would be owed as others would do against, for example, IR35?

Does your accountant indemnify you against tax that might be owed ? We do offer insurance to cover accountants and legal fees should a client be investigated by HMRC.

[Pondlife]

Does your accountant indemnify you against tax that might be owed ? We do offer insurance to cover accountants and legal fees should a client be investigated by HMRC.

Some do offer this, not just legal fees but for tax owed.

TLC35 for example

This is not like IR35 where they (HMRC) can argue working practises were not reflected correctly in order to win etc etc but apart from that there are thousands of cases to go with all finding in the contractors favour.

Your approach has never been tested. You have not proved it once in court and you are providing no indemnity to your clients. You are offering opinion based on someone elses knowledge. I'm not questioning their credentials in any way but it is still untested territory.

You are offering insurace but once one scheme member gets a letter from HMRC, the others will surely follow, no? Will your insurances cover all clients?

How is your offering any different to tract etc who claimed that their best in class lawyers said it was legit?

[geoff from contracta IOM]

Some do offer this, not just legal fees but for tax owed.

TLC35 for example

This is not like IR35 where they (HMRC) can argue working practises were not reflected correctly in order to win etc etc but apart from that there are thousands of cases to go with all finding in the contractors favour.

Your approach has never been tested. You have not proved it once in court and you are providing no indemnity to your clients. You are offering opinion based on someone elses knowledge. I'm not questioning their credentials in any way but it is still untested territory.

You are offering insurace but once one scheme member gets a letter from HMRC, the others will surely follow, no? Will your insurances cover all clients?

How is your offering any different to tract etc who claimed that their best in class lawyers said it was legit?

What was Tracts legal opinion ? A casual glance at their cached page rang massive bells for me . A number of points -

just because one scheme member might get a letter why would others ? As I said before our scheme leaves no footprints anywhere.

Why would the insurance not cover all clients ?

The insurance you have quoted covers tax and fees for PAYE tax disputes , well whoopdee doo they are getting money for nothing aren't they ? unless Sage payroll is wrong or someone can't read their PAYE tables