Days off / holidays etc?

[psychocandy]

I did a role a couple of years ago at one of the major banks - had 2 full weeks off in 15 months, one of them being over xmas. Also cancelled a weekend break at one point. When I did ask for a 2 week holiday they said no, so I left. One of my best moves ever and no regrets.

hmmm. Yeh its a difficult one this contractor absence thing. If you put your foot down and say I'm unavailable then its going to upset the client and affect your chance of a renewal.

Then again, from the clients point of view, they've commited to a budget of paying for you, so they want you there as much as possible. And they dont have to keep you happy like a permie because you're just a resource.

I guess its all about compromise etc and the contractor needs to take client needs into consideration, but the client must agree that contractor aint going to be there all the time. To expect that is unreasonable.

[JamJarST]

hmmm. Yeh its a difficult one this contractor absence thing. If you put your foot down and say I'm unavailable then its going to upset the client and affect your chance of a renewal.

Then again, from the clients point of view, they've commited to a budget of paying for you, so they want you there as much as possible. And they dont have to keep you happy like a permie because you're just a resource.

I guess its all about compromise etc and the contractor needs to take client needs into consideration, but the client must agree that contractor aint going to be there all the time. To expect that is unreasonable.

Not to mention a big red flag when it comes to IR35.

[psychocandy]

Not to mention a big red flag when it comes to IR35.

Obligation sort of thing? i.e. the client is making you be there all the time....

[JamJarST]

Obligation sort of thing? i.e. the client is making you be there all the time....

Well they are dictating your working practices making you be on site all the time.

[northernladuk]

Obligation sort of thing? i.e. the client is making you be there all the time....

Well they are dictating your working practices making you be on site all the time.

You couldn't make this stuff up!! The client saying you can't have time off due to workload is nothing to do with IR35 and working practices. Any supplier can have this challenge put on them and we cannot force a client to let us go when we feel like it. He has a project to deliver and the impact on the business is the factor.

This is a business level arguement not a working practices one. If you really want to try and pin some IR35 tag to this you could say it works in your favour as a permie can take a holiday when he wants (roughly) as they are legally obliged to give him holiday. A supplier can be forced to work through as there is no obligation to honour holidays.

[JamJarST]

You couldn't make this stuff up!! The client saying you can't have time off due to workload is nothing to do with IR35 and working practices. Any supplier can have this challenge put on them and we cannot force a client to let us go when we feel like it. He has a project to deliver and the impact on the business is the factor.

This is a business level arguement not a working practices one. If you really want to try and pin some IR35 tag to this you could say it works in your favour as a permie can take a holiday when he wants (roughly) as they are legally obliged to give him holiday. A supplier can be forced to work through as there is no obligation to honour holidays.

You really are a ray of sunshine! Having to ask for holiday like an employee could easily be argued as an IR35 problem by HMRC, I bet it even goes on some holiday register too with all the other employees. You are not always right and being obnoxious and giving bad rep doesn't make you right.

[psychocandy]

You couldn't make this stuff up!! The client saying you can't have time off due to workload is nothing to do with IR35 and working practices. Any supplier can have this challenge put on them and we cannot force a client to let us go when we feel like it. He has a project to deliver and the impact on the business is the factor.

This is a business level arguement not a working practices one. If you really want to try and pin some IR35 tag to this you could say it works in your favour as a permie can take a holiday when he wants (roughly) as they are legally obliged to give him holiday. A supplier can be forced to work through as there is no obligation to honour holidays.

I think NLUK is right here. After all, you could hire a builder to build an extension for you. If he then half way through says he aint availanble for two weeks you could tell him to cancel the order.

[psychocandy]

You really are a ray of sunshine! Having to ask for holiday like an employee could easily be argued as an IR35 problem by HMRC, I bet it even goes on some holiday register too with all the other employees. You are not always right and being obnoxious and giving bad rep doesn't make you right.

LOL. I didnt think ole' NLUK was too bad this time......

Its not asking though is it. Its making sure the client isn't upset about your unavailability to deliver a service at that time. Dunno what the client does with the info but they may well add it to a list or project plan etc. But then again if wanted some 3rd party company in to do some other work that'd possibly be on the project plan too....

Yeh. I'm beginning to see that legally I could rock up one day and say unavailable these two weeks - like it or lump it. Nothing client could do at all since. But then again theres nothing stopping them saying ok fair enough one weeks notice off you go. (Then again because theres no obligation to provide work they could just tell you to go on the spot, couldnt they? No obligation and all that?)

[northernladuk]

You really are a ray of sunshine! Having to ask for holiday like an employee could easily be argued as an IR35 problem by HMRC, I bet it even goes on some holiday register too with all the other employees. You are not always right and being obnoxious and giving bad rep doesn't make you right.

At least get your arguement right. My reply was in response to

Well they are dictating your working practices making you be on site all the time.

You mention asking for holiday which we have covered and if your read back I have agreed it is a flag so needs handling carefully. Your comment is around making you be on site all the time and dictating your working practice so nothing to do with asking for holiday. The comment above is about ALLOWING you to have time off which is as I covered in my explaination.

If you have made your point badly I apologise but making you follow permie policy to apply for holidays and the issue of you not being allowed to take it are two different things.

I give neg rep because the advice as you worded it is not correct.

I make such a issue about a tiny point as you can see from the comment below Psycho is being mislead by it

Obligation sort of thing? i.e. the client is making you be there all the time....

[diesel]

You say dont use permie forms, but depends on what client protocol is and what other contractors do. Some contractors dont bother and do whatever the clients ask for in terms of forms etc.

Some contractors like myself are sceptical to use a permie leave form but cross out references to staff etc. To be honest in my current client project everyone has to use a holiday form but i cross out terms and sections not applicable.
i usually ask my client in advance i am taking so such a day off, if this okay? but in return i tell them i can be flexible over the holiday season if they dont mind me taking days off at short notice.