IR35 stays...

[malvolio]

They did a couple of times before they got in, then it was all "We'll look into it" etc. Now we know they're not going to bother their arses, just like the last lot.

The point is that PCG are not delivering, and are not standing up and fighting like they used to.

Bollocks. PCG are the only organisation fighting this battle and the only organisation having a positive impact. IR35 is staying because HMG has now shut down all the fancy offshore schemes used by the big boys to duck tax liabilities and IR35 remains the only extant method to stop them incorporating - think of John Birt at the BBC, for example..

IT's not the result PCG wanted, but it's a hell of a long way away from being a failure.

[Wanderer]

And neither am I. I'm positively delighted, the best possible outcome IMO.

While I'm not exactly ecstatic, I have to agree.

As the OTS points out, if they "abolished" IR35 then there is a very real danger that there would be a massive flood of high earners incorporating purely as a tax avoidance measure. Now, while I'm sure that some of these bankers/entertainers/sports people's income will indeed be outside IR35, I really can't imagine a realistic right of substitution for most of their contracts....

I would be interested to hear what the help line is about. If it's anything other than anonymous then it's going to be a waste of time isn't it. I've never trusted advice from HMRC and sometimes it's been completely wrong.

[Fred Bloggs]

Let's be honest, if anyone asks HMRC for an opinion, they're nuts. You know the answer before you ask the question. As regards PCG, they do not represent me and I seriously wish they would stop pretending to. I would like the PCG to just go away quietly as they seem to have no purpose now as far as I can see. IR35 stays and we can now all be left to get on with our lives.

[malvolio]

Let's be honest, if anyone asks HMRC for an opinion, they're nuts. You know the answer before you ask the question. As regards PCG, they do not represent me and I seriously wish they would stop pretending to. I would like the PCG to just go away quietly as they seem to have no purpose now as far as I can see. IR35 stays and we can now all be left to get on with our lives.

You don't want to play, nobody's asking you to. You will, of course, be paying the full PAYE and NICs on 95% of your gross, arranging to be paid NMW by your client whether or not you are working, being paid ful rate to take holidays, accept that you have no discretion in how you perform your work and not allowing your other half to be a co-owner of your company, won't you.

PCG is about an awful lot more than IR35...

[Fred Bloggs]

I respect your opinions Mal, but I think you're wrong. I haven't seen anything yet that persuades me that I need to do anything different. I excercise due diligence in assessing my contracts, I take professional advice, I have insurance, I make sure the client co never loses sight of the fact I am not (and don't want to be) an employee, I ensure that my working practices reflect that. Nothing has changed and I am happy.

[malvolio]

I respect your opinions Mal, but I think you're wrong. I haven't seen anything yet that persuades me that I need to do anything different. I excercise due diligence in assessing my contracts, I take professional advice, I have insurance, I make sure the client co never loses sight of the fact I am not (and don't want to be) an employee, I ensure that my working practices reflect that. Nothing has changed and I am happy.

So things like the S660a defeat and the exemptions from the AWD would have happened anyway? Or even the case law against which you evaluate your contracts and define your insurance? And if you think what the UK government does for us contractors is less than helpful, wait until you see what the EU is planning...

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

To chip in my two penn'th (how do you spell that ) . I think you have to consider what HMR&C could have implemented within the contractor market if the PCG hadn't existed at all. No-one likes all the red tape that surrounds the industry but it could have been worse or at least more damaging.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

So things like the S660a defeat and the exemptions from the AWD would have happened anyway? Or even the case law against which you evaluate your contracts and define your insurance? And if you think what the UK government does for us contractors is less than helpful, wait until you see what the EU is planning...

Some people have a convenient memory.

The IR35 judicial review may have failed but it wouldn't have even happened at all without the PCG.

Where would Geoff Jones (Arctic Systems), and by implication other contractors, have been without support from the PCG?

Who would have been able to afford to fight this all the way to the Court of Appeal on their own?

The mere existence of the PCG has probably been a deterrant against some of the worst excesses of HMRC.

Please do not underestimate what they've achieved.

[SorenLorensen]

Please do not underestimate what they've achieved.

Don't get me wrong, the PCG has been fantastic for UK contractors. My big concern is what they are, and what they represent as a group now, compared to 18 months ago.

[Jog On]

I think I might join now that it's staying. If they intend to 'improve the administration' of it (which I think we have yet to see unfold?) I want someone with the PCG's track record representing me should the need arise.