Real life IR35 stories...?

[d000hg]

I could put you in touch with around 1700 PCG members who have. Does that help?

I think he's asking for personal stories more than official stats. 1700 is seemingly pretty small as a % of contractors, do you have a figure for the total number for whom IR35 is relevant?

[malvolio]

I think he's asking for personal stories more than official stats.

Yes, I know what he's asking thanks.

1700 is seemingly pretty small as a % of contractors, do you have a figure for the total number for whom IR35 is relevant?

It's relevant to everyone who's a freelance as far as I'm concerned.

IF PCG are counting 1700 out of 20k members then that's 8.5% of the total. Apply that to the UK's 1.4 million freelancers, there are potentially 119,000 cases out there. I don't think we're anywhere near that number, but with an average lifespan of 5 years, it's not surprising they are not that many ongoing. New cases are launched at around 5 a week, by the way.

The point is that while we may be a little optimisitc about getting shot of it, it is still out there, it is real, and people need to guard against it.

[centurian]

I'm curious to know how much the 1700 were earning?

I mostly do support and infrastructure stuff which doesn't pay as much as development or PM work, rightly or wrongly I assume I'm comparatively small fry so they leave me alone.

On the working basis that HMRC consider tax avoiders as thieves...

If you are a shopkeeper and you catch someone shoplifting red-handed, but for a small item. Would you simply let them off - because you know that others have probably stolen bigger amounts from you...

[LouC]

Interesting thread, thanks to everyone for responding.

Jubber - did you end up paying the revenue or fight your case to the end?

[tyut4669]

Six, three of which were winnable had they taken professional guidance form the start and one which was sort of abandoned so Hector claimed a victory and PCG claimed a no decision made since it was supposed to go back for a retrial.

Is it possible to eloborate on the professional guidance. What were the kind of mistakes that landed them in trouble.

[malvolio]

Is it possible to eloborate on the professional guidance. What were the kind of mistakes that landed them in trouble.

Not without re-reading an awful lot of court reports. At its simplest they made technical mistakes in the application of the law to a given situation that a proper advocate wouldn't have done. Although you can take the initial result to a tribunal, the tribunal can only agree (or not) that the initial judgement was aligned to the relevant statute and case law: you can't introduce new factors. So if in the original hearing they missed out that they had a rock-solid RoS, for example (they didn't, but you get the point), you can't then use that to change the ruling at a Tribunal. Hence, get professional advice as soon as possible.

[tyut4669]

Not without re-reading an awful lot of court reports. At its simplest they made technical mistakes in the application of the law to a given situation that a proper advocate wouldn't have done. Although you can take the initial result to a tribunal, the tribunal can only agree (or not) that the initial judgement was aligned to the relevant statute and case law: you can't introduce new factors. So if in the original hearing they missed out that they had a rock-solid RoS, for example (they didn't, but you get the point), you can't then use that to change the ruling at a Tribunal. Hence, get professional advice as soon as possible.

I see basically, it is not some sorts of accounting mistakes or somethings like not getting the contract renewed, to put it simply, if they had got the some professional representation service right from the beginning that they received the letter from HMRC, they would have been fine.

[mattock]

The big picture

I was contracting for 17 years and ended up in the city on 60ph.
In 2002 the IR informed me they wanted 26.5K plus normal tax and NI for the year (amounting to 40k). They disallowed my travel expences for six years. I sold my house and paid them, havn't worked since 2002. Funny how it always seems to be 26.5k. They pay me now to do nothing.