Permie alert

[rootsnall]

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

It seems a bit odd to me but I haven't seen a permie contract for many a moon. I'd of thought it wasn't even legal, but maybe our wonderful government has kindly opted out of european working hours legal stuff on our behalf.

ps. Oops ! I wanted this to go into Business / Contracts !

[pastalista]

Working time directive

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

It seems a bit odd to me but I haven't seen a permie contract for many a moon. I'd of thought it wasn't even legal, but maybe our wonderful government has kindly opted out of european working hours legal stuff on our behalf.

ps. Oops ! I wanted this to go into Business / Contracts !

The UK has not opted out of this but gives individuals a chance to decide whether or not they wish to be bound by it. If they do, then 48 hours per week is the maximum permissible hours. You should talk directly to the company concerned.

Pastalista

[d000hg]

Sounds common - the ones I saw that specify working hours have a similar clause in. One company I worked at, you were asked to sign an opt-out of the working hours directive.

I think it's kind of common sense to have it in the contract that you might have to work log hours in crunch time... we all know it happens but this way you are at least agreeing formally to it, so if you're a lazy slacker they can find a way to get rid of you... if I were an employer I'd welcome ways to fire people since that's a minefield itself.

[Clippy]

IIRC, my previous employment contracts haven't included the actual hours of work per day but the total number of hours for the week as well as how long you are allowed for lunch.

[SueEllen]

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

No idea but my (2) permie contracts where written in the form of standard hours are x hours per week plus any other time as needed. Yours is actually better if you have good management, as if there is no work then you can come in for a couple of hours then b*gger off. If you have bad management then your contract is a nightmare.

[rootsnall]

Sounds common - the ones I saw that specify working hours have a similar clause in. One company I worked at, you were asked to sign an opt-out of the working hours directive.

I think it's kind of common sense to have it in the contract that you might have to work log hours in crunch time... we all know it happens but this way you are at least agreeing formally to it, so if you're a lazy slacker they can find a way to get rid of you... if I were an employer I'd welcome ways to fire people since that's a minefield itself.

Ta for the replies. I'll not be questioning it with the employer, I was just checking it is now the done thing. I'd prefer to have my 37.5 'normal hours' stated in there, then you have a reference point when you do put the extra hours in and want to unofficially claim a bit of TOIL back.

If the employer doesn't state your hours then in some ways they are making it more difficult to sack you for poor time keeping !

[RichardCranium]

Download a few permie project manager (or any other manager) job descriptions. They all say much the same: a minimum number of hours, no maximum, "evenings, weekends or out of hours as necessary" and the last line is always "and any other activities as required".

Permie is crap.

[SueEllen]

If the employer doesn't state your hours then in some ways they are making it more difficult to sack you for poor time keeping !

They can still sack you for it.

Lots of employers rely on the fact most employees don't have the gumption and resources to take legal action against them.

[rootsnall]

No idea but my (2) permie contracts where written in the form of standard hours are x hours per week plus any other time as needed. Yours is actually better if you have good management, as if there is no work then you can come in for a couple of hours then b*gger off. If you have bad management then your contract is a nightmare.

I'll have to wait and see about the IF

[SueEllen]

I'll have to wait and see about the IF

Don't forget about the restructuring that companies do.

So if you have a good manager they decide to go elsewhere so they have a life, and the a***licking devil becomes your manager.