Permie alert

[pastalista]

Permie

Probably.

I have a nice easy solution to all potential nightmares, I resign and I'm back in the contract market. A much more comfortable position for me than the thought of rocking up to work 47 weeks a year. But the money and location are good and suits my current circumstances, so I'll give it a go.

I haven't been a permie for 30 years but I am now at the stage of my career where I can't really go any higher as an interim / contractor. The lure of the CIO / CTO / Programme Director roles in the permie world is getting stronger. I've seen some pretty big money jobs advertised but I don't know if after 30 years I could hack being perm again.

I'm guessing quite a lot has changed but maybe it's all just as it was really with a slightly different language.

I've started shuddering now so I'd better stop.

Pastalista

[rootsnall]

Probably.

I have a nice easy solution to all potential nightmares, I resign and I'm back in the contract market. A much more comfortable position for me than the thought of rocking up to work 47 weeks a year. But the money and location are good and suits my current circumstances, so I'll give it a go.

[SueEllen]

I'm going in as a techie and intend giving them a decent 37.5hrs a week on average. We'll have to see how it pans out.

[rootsnall]

Download a few permie project manager (or any other manager) job descriptions. They all say much the same: a minimum number of hours, no maximum, "evenings, weekends or out of hours as necessary" and the last line is always "and any other activities as required".

Permie is crap.

I'm going in as a techie and intend giving them a decent 37.5hrs a week on average. We'll have to see how it pans out.

Permie PM work

[SueEllen]

I'll have to wait and see about the IF

Don't forget about the restructuring that companies do.

So if you have a good manager they decide to go elsewhere so they have a life, and the a***licking devil becomes your manager.

[rootsnall]

No idea but my (2) permie contracts where written in the form of standard hours are x hours per week plus any other time as needed. Yours is actually better if you have good management, as if there is no work then you can come in for a couple of hours then b*gger off. If you have bad management then your contract is a nightmare.

I'll have to wait and see about the IF

[SueEllen]

If the employer doesn't state your hours then in some ways they are making it more difficult to sack you for poor time keeping !

They can still sack you for it.

Lots of employers rely on the fact most employees don't have the gumption and resources to take legal action against them.

[RichardCranium]

Download a few permie project manager (or any other manager) job descriptions. They all say much the same: a minimum number of hours, no maximum, "evenings, weekends or out of hours as necessary" and the last line is always "and any other activities as required".

Permie is crap.

[rootsnall]

Sounds common - the ones I saw that specify working hours have a similar clause in. One company I worked at, you were asked to sign an opt-out of the working hours directive.

I think it's kind of common sense to have it in the contract that you might have to work log hours in crunch time... we all know it happens but this way you are at least agreeing formally to it, so if you're a lazy slacker they can find a way to get rid of you... if I were an employer I'd welcome ways to fire people since that's a minefield itself.

Ta for the replies. I'll not be questioning it with the employer, I was just checking it is now the done thing. I'd prefer to have my 37.5 'normal hours' stated in there, then you have a reference point when you do put the extra hours in and want to unofficially claim a bit of TOIL back.

If the employer doesn't state your hours then in some ways they are making it more difficult to sack you for poor time keeping !

[SueEllen]

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

No idea but my (2) permie contracts where written in the form of standard hours are x hours per week plus any other time as needed. Yours is actually better if you have good management, as if there is no work then you can come in for a couple of hours then b*gger off. If you have bad management then your contract is a nightmare.

[Clippy]

IIRC, my previous employment contracts haven't included the actual hours of work per day but the total number of hours for the week as well as how long you are allowed for lunch.

[d000hg]

Sounds common - the ones I saw that specify working hours have a similar clause in. One company I worked at, you were asked to sign an opt-out of the working hours directive.

I think it's kind of common sense to have it in the contract that you might have to work log hours in crunch time... we all know it happens but this way you are at least agreeing formally to it, so if you're a lazy slacker they can find a way to get rid of you... if I were an employer I'd welcome ways to fire people since that's a minefield itself.

[pastalista]

Working time directive

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

It seems a bit odd to me but I haven't seen a permie contract for many a moon. I'd of thought it wasn't even legal, but maybe our wonderful government has kindly opted out of european working hours legal stuff on our behalf.

ps. Oops ! I wanted this to go into Business / Contracts !

The UK has not opted out of this but gives individuals a chance to decide whether or not they wish to be bound by it. If they do, then 48 hours per week is the maximum permissible hours. You should talk directly to the company concerned.

Pastalista

[rootsnall]

A permie employment contract I happen to be looking at does not state any standard working hours, just words to the effect 'you'll work what is required to complete your job'. Is this now the norm ?

It seems a bit odd to me but I haven't seen a permie contract for many a moon. I'd of thought it wasn't even legal, but maybe our wonderful government has kindly opted out of european working hours legal stuff on our behalf.

ps. Oops ! I wanted this to go into Business / Contracts !