BN66 - JR Judgement Day

[poppy01]

optimism???

After the initial shock of last weeks judgement, I have now come around to a serene sense of optimism. I am not deluded however. I have finally (and belatedly) realised that... we might lose this.. So I have looked at my situation and figured out that through re-mortaging plus another loan, I can probably get together about 60% of what I will owe when push comes to shove. This doesn't mean I've given up. Other posters have concluded the same thing, that this judgement was Justice Parker kicking the case upstairs. His judgement effectively said, the interpretation and context of a law trumps the written law. This is a very big deal indeed. So let's just wait and see, but prepare for the worst... and try, if you can, to relax and enjoy life. There are many people in a worse state than we. We are tenacious, and will come through. And remember, spring is coming, and an election... and its very likely that this government, the author of all our troubles, will soon, in IT parlance, be 'escorted from the premises' . So chin up chaps, give the missus (or whatever) a kiss, and think of all your blessings..

[PlaneSailing]

Consideration

Some other choice sections:

"“The government is pleased with the decision of the High Court,” the official said. “Prior to introducing the legislation the government considered very carefully the issues relating to fairness and certainty, and the public interest, and took the view that in the circumstances the legislation was appropriate.”

Ha, amazing what these HMRC ****wits can manage when they're down the pub, pissed up and can manage to scrawl over the back of a fag packet.


"According to SJD, the High Court has effectively said that the tax demands the Revenue has made upon scheme users are accurate, lawful and owed.

“What will happen now is that the tax demands will now become payable, up to the point that an appeal to yesterday’s ruling overturns them,” the firm said."

This implies that we'll have no ability to fend off HMRC, will have to pay up and will only get our money back if they lose a future appeal.

I'm getting sick of this 'carefull consideration' line. The revenue have been asked repeatedly to publish this 'consideration' but they have refused, saying that it will come out in the JR.

Well I've still not seen it.

In fact the only piece of 'consideration' I saw was a technical exchange that said they believed the scheme was effective.

Mr Singh. HMRC Counsel, dismissed the technical exchange as it was written by someone who didn't know a great deal about tax law. Well, if revenue don't know the tax law who the hell does?

[max]

And remember, spring is coming, and an election... and its very likely that this government, the author of all our troubles, will soon, in IT parlance, be 'escorted from the premises'

Or.....maybe not:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...oll-shows.html

"If that was translated into a general election result David Cameron would fail to win an overall majority."

[funjim]

hmm is this fair??

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f464694-f...44feab49a.html

not sure if anyone saw this.. it seems that people .. dentists and doctors specifically .. who evaded tax by not declaring.. had an amnesty offered by hmrc.....


hmm nothing like consistency eh?

fj

[sgee]

Its everywhere - but this is evasion, unlike our case whatsoever. As someone posted a while back - simpler tax laws, flatter rates, regimes appropriate for different working practices. More fairness across the earning spectrum is what is needed - tax bands themselves represent a fundamental challenge to fairness. Fairness means it all equally relevant to each taxpayer.

If the cash-in-hand economy disappears at whatever level there will be a lot less service jobs, fewer extensions, less economic activity. I don't condone this but its no different to what 1000's of other people do each day without being victimised (builders, cleaners etc etc). Targetting groups based on profiles is hardly "fair" - as IT contractors we all know about how "fair" that is from IR35, squarely aimed at on e particular group of workers.

The HMRC needs to have rules to follow and not set itself up as the new Secret Service!

[centurian]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f464694-f...44feab49a.html

not sure if anyone saw this.. it seems that people .. dentists and doctors specifically .. who evaded tax by not declaring.. had an amnesty offered by hmrc.....

Ah, but they still have to pay a 10% penalty - reduced from 100%. And this assumes you come forward and give yourself up.

BN66 are paying 0% penalty - they are merely being "asked" to pay the tax that would have been due had they not participated in the scheme.

No mention of interest (which can really add up over the years) was made in the case of doctors/dentists, but I would imagine it is also payable there as well - certainly for those that fight it, or don't come forward

[Retro]

Telegraph Article

Good article from Ian Cowie this morning.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...iggest-threat/

[SantaClaus]

Good article from Ian Cowie this morning.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...iggest-threat/

This is good. At least the serious broadsheets are on our side.

Now we need to mobilise a letter writing campaign.

[OnYourBikeGB]

This is good. At least the serious broadsheets are on our side.

Now we need to mobilise a letter writing campaign.

Very good. Perhaps we will see people who didn't want to get involved beginning to realise that they could get dragged into this mess too. I think there's a lot of people who used umbrellas etc who may now be a little concerned. After all the bottom line was that we were using a system to avoid tax. That covers a lot of people, a lot of worried people.

Don't forget that all these legal schemes will have been issued with a scheme number after disclosing exactly how they were worked and therefore 'legal'. HMRC know how they work and they know who was on them, and so they also know how much they can get, if they make other retrospective changes. There are a lot of worried people thinking they are next, and they might well be.

The more balanced views we get of this unbalanced ruling, the better. The more fear and uncertainty produced, the stronger our chances. That said, I'm ring fencing off the funds. There wasn't a lot of people rushing to help us before. I hope it isn't too late, but I'm going to prepare as if it is.

[lucozade]

Even if the chance of winning is small, it's still a chance.

Settling now would be like burning your lottery ticket before the draw.

I really can't see any good argument for settling.

1) if you haven't got the money it's not an option anyway

2) if you've got the money then invest it, CTD or pay on account

Remember Sods Law

What's likely to happen if you settle?

Hmmm been thinking about option 1 but I do have at least 50% easily available now. However, that was intended for a house purchase. Now I'm not sure what to do. Sink it into a house for me, my misses and my 5 month old baby girl or just sit tight and wait for it to be taken off me anyway!

I've been with MTM for at least 5 years of the scheme (exposure is easily 6 figures) and must say we need some "other" options presented to us. It's all fair and well fighting on which is in my blood BUT it's the "what if's" that frighten the life out of me.

Certainly interesting in why HMRC are willing to offer doctors and dentists a deal of 10% on what they DIDN'T declare whilst they want 100% of what we DID declare. How is that ever to be viewed as justice !!!!!

(Thanks to everyone so far for all your valuable input and help here. DR your a legend already )