BN66 - the road to Judicial Review

[srhcompcon]

Closure notice finally arrived!

Nothing for 6 years and then 2001-2008 all in one go!

[ROBIN REDBREAST]

Merry Xmas!

Dont be surprised! Thye always arrive during public holidays, in this case Xmas Holidays...where you cant speak to your tax representative for a couple of weeks. I wonder how many people HMRC have worried into submission with this tactic....

Nothing for 6 years and then 2001-2008 all in one go!

[Toocan]

Her Majesty's Right to Certainty (HMRC)

Dont be surprised! Thye always arrive during public holidays, in this case Xmas Holidays...where you cant speak to your tax representative for a couple of weeks. I wonder how many people HMRC have worried into submission with this tactic....

I noticed that too. In fact, everyone of my closure notices arrived on a Saturday morning. It's shame our taxing authority does not work with taxpayers rather than against them. Everyone's lives (including HMRC) would be much easier if they took a more cooperative and honest approach.

For example, I used this scheme because it gave me certainty. HMRC would not give me certainty re:IR35 whereas this scheme did. Ironically, I now have multiple opinions that state I/we would not be caught by IR35. If HMRC had been open and honest then I would not have been in this scheme.

HMRC - I know you're reading this so I hope you take note: When you ask for new laws, make sure they are clear. As a taxpayer (and I am, as are almost all people who used this scheme) I want certainty and the Courts uphold that RIGHT.

[bn66sceptic]

Sob Story

I have studied the survey of alleged hardship on the JCHR website and I have to say it all sounds a bit far fetched to me. Are marriages really breaking up, are people really suffering from depression? Hmmm, call me a sceptic and a cynic but I don’t buy it and neither will the rest of joe public.

Even if I suspend my disbelief for one moment and accept as fact that people are facing bankruptcy, losing their homes then isn’t this totally self-inflicted?

Surely if people were foolish enough to spend the money when HMRC were still carrying out enquiries, then aren’t they alone responsible for bringing this suffering on their families?

[smalldog]

I have a real fear that if we lose and HMRC enforce they will have blood on their hands. I highly suspect there will be suicide cases if peoples lives are destroyed by bankruptcy etc....

HMRC if you are reading this and such a thing does happen make no mistake we will be shouting from the roof tops what you did and how you've driven people to despair.

You will be front page news we will make sure of it....

[SantaClaus]

I have a real fear that if we lose and HMRC enforce they will have blood on their hands. I highly suspect there will be suicide cases if peoples lives are destroyed by bankruptcy etc....

HMRC if you are reading this and such a thing does happen make no mistake we will be shouting from the roof tops what you did and how you've driven people to despair.

You will be front page news we will make sure of it....

Yep, wouldnt be suprised if we make front page news.
Some members of our group are very experienced at performing stunts that cause maximum media publicity

P.S. Me and the Mrs have been hard at it this weekend to try and up the number of sprogs we have. Were aiming for at least 8 children so we can claim enough benefits for a Notting Hill villa.

[Toocan]

I have studied the survey of alleged hardship on the JCHR website and I have to say it all sounds a bit far fetched to me. Are marriages really breaking up, are people really suffering from depression? Hmmm, call me a sceptic and a cynic but I don’t buy it and neither will the rest of joe public.

Even if I suspend my disbelief for one moment and accept as fact that people are facing bankruptcy, losing their homes then isn’t this totally self-inflicted?

Surely if people were foolish enough to spend the money when HMRC were still carrying out enquiries, then aren’t they alone responsible for bringing this suffering on their families?

There will always be those who deny what did and didn’t happen.

Your third paragraph rather captures the issue however – HMRC did not appear to be conducting enquiries at all. They came up with a suggestion for how they thought they might attack the planning but were no doubt disappointed when told it didn’t apply. This they appeared to accept – if actions are anything to go by – and they remained silent till s.58 Finance Act 2008.

How long do you think it is reasonable for HMRC to conduct enquiries for? In this case they knew how the scheme worked in 2001 (if not before) and they knew who was using it shortly after. Yet they left it for a further 7 years before bringing in retrospective legislation (that alone speaks volumes).

Is it reasonable for one to sit on ones hands for 7 years? How would “joe public” view that?

[SantaClaus]

I have studied the survey of alleged hardship on the JCHR website and I have to say it all sounds a bit far fetched to me. Are marriages really breaking up, are people really suffering from depression? Hmmm, call me a sceptic and a cynic but I don’t buy it and neither will the rest of joe public.

If you caught sight of the testimonials provided to the JCHR, then you would know this is 100% true.
However, contrary to Inland Revenue view, the case will not be heard in the "court of public opinion", but the high court. The issue is whether S58 is an infringement of human rights, not whether an X-Factor enthralled public are sympathetic to our cause.

Even if I suspend my disbelief for one moment and accept as fact that people are facing bankruptcy, losing their homes then isn’t this totally self-inflicted?

At the risk of stating the obvious, one has a right to organise his tax affairs in the most efficient manner, as long as it falls within the law. If HMRC/government/ministers with connections to big consultancies hadn't been greedy and introduced IR35, we wouldn't be talking about this today.

Surely if people were foolish enough to spend the money when HMRC were still carrying out enquiries, then aren’t they alone responsible for bringing this suffering on their families?

HMRC should have challenged this tax avoidance scheme years ago in court. They didnt, they sat on their hands for 7 years as a previous poster has said. They gave the green light that this scheme was totaly acceptable by not taking the case before the special commissioners.
Is it fair that we should pay cumulative interest and penalties on the amount HMRC deem we owe? Should we have put aside double the money in case HMRC decided they wanted to change the law retrospectively?

Do me a favour and go back to the Inland Revene hole that you crawled out of

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

I have studied the survey of alleged hardship on the JCHR website and I have to say it all sounds a bit far fetched to me. Are marriages really breaking up, are people really suffering from depression? Hmmm, call me a sceptic and a cynic but I don’t buy it and neither will the rest of joe public.

Even if I suspend my disbelief for one moment and accept as fact that people are facing bankruptcy, losing their homes then isn’t this totally self-inflicted?

Surely if people were foolish enough to spend the money when HMRC were still carrying out enquiries, then aren’t they alone responsible for bringing this suffering on their families?

Even the 3rd Umpire at a deciding Ashes Test Match can make a ruling in less time than HMRC did to make theirs about the scheme. As for the evidence at the JCHR, I suggest you go and spend Christmas with some of these families and find out what they think next Christmas might bring. It certainly won't be joy and happiness if BN66 prevails. Oh and by the way, telling authorities what you do should be enough for them to act on that. Makes Self Assessment a bit of a joke in this respect. "I am LBW Mr. Umpire" then making another 50 runs only to be told you were out to start with and having those runs taken away. It's just not cricket, nor is tax retrospection of any kind especially when all the facts were on display from day one and the Umpire was fast asleep when the call of "Howz that?" went up. I guess the folks at HMRC don't watch, let alone play cricket in this respect.

Your quote: "spend the money". On what exactly? That question is as daft as why HMRC felt they did not need to perform an Impact Assessment on the scheme users. Me thinks you know less than you presume and HMRC know less that they should have otherwise none of us would be on this forum and there would be no need for the JR.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I have studied the survey of alleged hardship on the JCHR website and I have to say it all sounds a bit far fetched to me. Are marriages really breaking up, are people really suffering from depression? Hmmm, call me a sceptic and a cynic but I don’t buy it and neither will the rest of joe public.

Even if I suspend my disbelief for one moment and accept as fact that people are facing bankruptcy, losing their homes then isn’t this totally self-inflicted?

Surely if people were foolish enough to spend the money when HMRC were still carrying out enquiries, then aren’t they alone responsible for bringing this suffering on their families?

Is that HMRC "über thug" Dave?