"IR35 tax is a huge failure"

[TykeMerc]

That wasn't the success I was referring to, but never mind. Obviously the point is lost on some...

It's far from obvious to me too if you're claiming a success other than the small revenue from IR35 cases. I'd be more than happy to be enlightened and congratulate the PCG if there is a major success to applaud.

[Fred Bloggs]

IMO, IR35 is going nowhere. The last couple of wins for HMRC will boost their confidence and the tax take considerably. The noose is tightening for Ltd Co contractors I'm afraid. And no political party is interested except to raise more tax from a soft target.

[malvolio]

IMO, IR35 is going nowhere. The last couple of wins for HMRC will boost their confidence and the tax take considerably. The noose is tightening for Ltd Co contractors I'm afraid. And no political party is interested except to raise more tax from a soft target.

Let's just wait and see, shall we. We won't see any changes before the next election anyway, let's not go getting all despondent until we have to.

[poppy01]

IMO, IR35 is going nowhere. The last couple of wins for HMRC will boost their confidence and the tax take considerably. The noose is tightening for Ltd Co contractors I'm afraid. And no political party is interested except to raise more tax from a soft target.

dont care, I'm insured against investigation, legal challenges, tax and penalties If I lose. I am in business same as those f**wits who charge graduates at at 1000 a day (the vested interest ir35 was designed to protect)

[NotAllThere]

How come the PCG could work out how much tax had been collected, but Dim Prawn (not the CuK Dim Prawn) has repeatedly said it isn't possible?

It will go and no doubt be replaced with something equally as inadequate

Or be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.

[centurian]

dont care, I'm insured against investigation, legal challenges, tax and penalties If I lose. I am in business same as those f**wits who charge graduates at at 1000 a day (the vested interest ir35 was designed to protect)

I wonder how good that insurnace actually is - particularly the part that pays out tax and penalties.

You'll probably find some smallprint that says that if working practices are not aligned with the contract, then the insurance won't pay out - and I can't blame the insurers for that - they can't be expected to pay out if the contract is deemed to be a "sham".

There are two main ways to lose IR35

a) Bad contract (in which case you won't get insurance)
b) Working practices not aligned (in which case the insurance won't pay out)


So unless your insurer really screwed up in reviewing your contract, it's highly unlikely it will pay out if you lose (the tax and penalties part).

[poppy01]

I wonder how good that insurnace actually is - particularly the part that pays out tax and penalties.

You'll probably find some smallprint that says that if working practices are not aligned with the contract, then the insurance won't pay out - and I can't blame the insurers for that - they can't be expected to pay out if the contract is deemed to be a "sham".

There are two main ways to lose IR35

a) Bad contract (in which case you won't get insurance)
b) Working practices not aligned (in which case the insurance won't pay out)


So unless your insurer really screwed up in reviewing your contract, it's highly unlikely it will pay out if you lose (the tax and penalties part).

There is no such smallprint. Do you think I havent read it?
Anyhow my contracts are always reviewed, and I make sure my working practises are always aligned.

If you think my insurer wont payout I'd be grateful if you could give an example where this has occurred.

Not likely you'll find one though, given HmRC almost never win.

[Fred Bloggs]

Let's just wait and see, shall we. We won't see any changes before the next election anyway, let's not go getting all despondent until we have to.

Agreed, but I'm resigned to paying my QDOS premium for as many years as it takes I'm afraid.

[centurian]

There is no such smallprint. Do you think I havent read it?

Very surprised about that. If I was the underwriter I would be asking why cover is being provided to people where the working practices might not be the same as the contract.

After all, how do you assess the risk. The contract can be assessed, but that risk assessment is worthless if the contract is a sham - and like it or not - for some contractors it is exactly that.

But if they haven't put such a clause in, then they are the mugs. Go for it.

Anyhow my contracts are always reviewed, and I make sure my working practises are always aligned.

Then you probably don't need the insurance in the first place

If you think my insurer wont payout I'd be grateful if you could give an example where this has occurred. Not likely you'll find one though, given HmRC almost never win.

Ditto


I'm not saying the insurance is useless, but at the same time, no insurance is bulletproof. Your OP ("dont care, I'm insured") indicates that you see the insurance as some kind of silver bullet against the IR35 blood suckers, so I'm just urging some care against complacency.

[Qdos Contractor]

Not sure if you're referring to our TLC policy here, centurian, but I responded to some very similar queries regarding the insurance throughout this thread.

Without going into too much depth again, we risk assess the applications on the basis of working practices, not the contract. Therefore there is no 'contract being a sham' issue. We ask about 20 questions about how the contractor works and runs his/her business.

I can understand the concern about us not paying out - it is an insurance policy after all and lots of us have experienced problems with insurance companies. This is a unique type of policy though and we're not a traditional insurance company. Our underwriters agree to cover this type of risk because of our expertise in the field - if we can't successfully defend a contractor the policy will pay out.

If somebody knowingly makes a serious misrepresentation on an application for insurance they can expect their claim to be turned down. This has never happened with us though and I'd be surprised if it ever did. We've designed the application form carefully to avoid ambiguity.

We are also proactive in improving an insured client's position after they've purchased a policy. Contract reviews are provided without charge and free advice and other documentation provided.