Working in Belgium via Connexion

[fm123]

I used Albany some years ago when in France. They work the same way as Conx for the most part. Jason is ex Albany and was Nuno for those that know Conx.

Only difference is Albany are not trying to shaft everyone, yet

I'm not sure why any of us bother with the ManCos. None of them are fully legit. The only safe route is to go 100% onshore. From what I understand the best way is through your own company in Belgium. That is certainly what I'm doing. Okay, the take home is less, but you are fully above board, and you can sleep better at night.

And as a further bonus, you're not paying some rip-off ManCo, €500 or €600 a month, to drop you in it, when it all goes tits up.

[JustMe]

You so right!!

I'm not sure why any of us bother with the ManCos. None of them are fully legit. The only safe route is to go 100% onshore. From what I understand the best way is through your own company in Belgium. That is certainly what I'm doing. Okay, the take home is less, but you are fully above board, and you can sleep better at night.

And as a further bonus, you're not paying some rip-off ManCo, €500 or €600 a month, to drop you in it, when it all goes tits up.

Yes, you are so right. In Germany , Albany and AFSS sold the contracters to the german tax. Time of so-called management-companies are over. The best you can do is leave these so-called high-tax countries. And try to find something in Switserland.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Albany

[QUOTE=fm123;874272]
I used Albany some years ago when in France. They work the same way as Conx for the most part. Jason is ex Albany and was Nuno for those that know Conx.

Only difference is Albany are not trying to shaft everyone, yet

Albany provided me with 2 quotes.
Belgium with full declaration as independant. OK
This is ideal If you have a long term contract or are a belgium resident and you don't want the hastle or legal implications of an SPL.

To operate in belgium you need a Company(SPL)+ Self employed status.

Belgium with income split as per other mancos.
Non residents

[nodric]

[QUOTE=Brussels Slumdog;874648]

I used Albany some years ago when in France. They work the same way as Conx for the most part. Jason is ex Albany and was Nuno for those that know Conx.

Only difference is Albany are not trying to shaft everyone, yet

Albany provided me with 2 quotes.
Belgium with full declaration as independant. OK
This is ideal If you have a long term contract or are a belgium resident and you don't want the hastle or legal implications of an SPL.

To operate in belgium you need a Company(SPL)+ Self employed status.

Belgium with income split as per other mancos.
Non residents

Guys,

If you are intending to operate on a 100% declaration in Belgium there is no need at all for a ManCo of any kind. As Self Employed (Independent) or a Ltd Co (BVBA/SPRL) you will be fully registered for VAT etc so, can invoice the agency directly and keep the extra fees charged by a ManCo. The agency cannot refuse, and most won't, but if they do, set your accountant on them.

However, big red flashing warning light here.

If you operate as an Independent in Belgium 100% legit you will be crucified for taxes and especially social security. On a modestly declared income of 60K Euros a year you will be paying Over 10K a year in SS and could face a tax bill of 30K unless you have significant deductible items (very hard as a single guy living in a bedsit!). Take note that 60K a year is about 250 Euros a day. Imagine if you earn a lot more than that SS rises very sharply as your income does and, it has an impact on what you pay in coming years. i.e. SS is charged in future years based on what you earn now! So even if your income goes down in the future your SS will take years to catch up!!! Take it from someone who feels this pain right now

The reason people form a Ltd Co is that the company profits are taxed at 23% and there is no SS on them. You pay yourself a modest salary (36K a year is legal min) and this limits your SS and personal tax to around 1K a month. Then it is usual that the Ltd Co claims all deductibles against any tax it may be liable for on profits. The range of deductible items are far greater than those of an Independent and, other benefits are possible.

The drawback with creating a company in Belgium is that it should be considered a medium term commitment. There are costs to set it up of around 1500 Euros and, you must have capital in a bank account of 18K Euros. This can be reduced to 12K, or in the case of 2 directors 6K. This is money you must pay into the company to start it up.

The reason ManCos exist is to reduce the earned income in Belgium which, avoids the SS trap! The problem is most of the ManCos are not legit in anyway, despite what they tell you. The only way to avoid paying huge tax and SS bills in Belgium as an Independent is not to earn the money in the first place. If you worked for a foreign company who paid you a salary in Belgium, on which you pay tax and SS then you are legit. The balance of the monies that the 'company' charges for you belong to that company. Some of you with UK Ltd Cos could operate like this as long as you are not the sole director and sole income earner... Think about this...

This foreign company approach is adopted by a few offshore ManCos using pensions and funds for the future benefit of their employees They are legal of course but, risky, as they legally own the cash and, should they wish can vanish and you have no leg to stand on. The other problem is of course if they link you to the money now, or in the future, it can be shown as foreign source income and therefore you can be held liable for taxes on it.

The UK government has done a great deal to stamp out these schemes often known as EBT (Employee Benefit Trusts) hence why most UK contractors are legit nowadays.

Most of these sorts of systems rely on you leaving the country where you are tax resident and, withdrawing the funds at that time, maybe declaring the money into a lower tax regime wherever you move too.

So, if you are here for less than 12 months you can go 100% legit as an Independent, and then leave before your tax return arrives! But, if you intend to remain (who knows how many extensions you may get) then be very very careful about the SS trap. Seriously consider a Ltd Co if you intend to stay or, find a Management Solution that works for you, bearing in mind the issues of whose money it really is and, the penalties for getting at 'additional' funds in the future.

Of course the Belgians could get real and introduce a 30% rule like their Dutch cousins but, that's not going to happen soon

[ace00]

Best thread - ever.
Seriousley, I have been well educated by this thread, and it has helped me with some serious career decision making. Thanks.

[nodric]

Best thread - ever.
Seriousley, I have been well educated by this thread, and it has helped me with some serious career decision making. Thanks.

I hope the Belgian powers that be read this site and take note of some of these posts. I am told by 'someone who is supposed to know' that they do.

If they hunt us down or, make Belgium so unattractive to Contractors the market will dry up or, become so expensive companies will stop coming and, will ultimately relocate their IT operations to cheaper locations. This won't happen in the next 6 months but, it will happen.

Let's hope common sense prevails.

Anyway, glad it has been of some use so far.

[fm123]

I hope the Belgian powers that be read this site and take note of some of these posts. I am told by 'someone who is supposed to know' that they do.

Yes, I hope so too. Because I am convinced that most contractors are honest people, who don't mind paying their way, but want a fair return for skills that have often taken years and a lot of hard work to acquire.

Contracting always has a risk. People take out rents on flats only for the contract to fall through. It's tough on people with partners and with kids. For those who travel back home every week there are frustrating and fruitless hours waiting for trains and planes.

We are under fire from bodyshoppers looking to undercut our ever falling rates (in real terms). There is the rigmarole and hassle of registering with authorities, accountants, starting up companies all in a country that people might not be too familiar with. Clients who expect unpaid overtime, which was unheard of some years back.

There are no paid holidays, for most contractors no paid training, no redundancy, no paid sick leave, no paid pension. And there is no guarantee of a new contract, once the current one finishes.

So fair dos, please. As another poster said, how about something similar to the Dutch system? Where the authorities get a fair cut on contractor earnings, but there is still something decent left over for contractors. Fair deal both ways, and everyone is happy.

[Fred Bloggs]

Best thread - ever.
Seriousley, I have been well educated by this thread, and it has helped me with some serious career decision making. Thanks.

Yes, it's convinced me to avoid Belgium purely on the grounds that it isn't worth the hassle. That's Belgium's loss, not mine, I'll take my sklills elsewhere. As will many others.

[nikos]

Nodric, where do you get the 23% rate from?

All the searches I did point to these corporate tax rates in Belgium:

The standard corporate tax rate is 33,99%. Reduced rates can be applied when the taxable profit does not exceed EUR 322,500, 24.25% on profits of up to EUR 25,000, 31% on profits between EUR 25,000 and EUR 90,000 and 34.5% on profits between EUR 90,000 and EUR 322,500.

About the 12000 you have to pay out of the 36000 salary:
Shouldn't you also pay employer's SS contributions?

In any case, thanks for the info you have provided.

[ace00]

Guys,
..................

FYI - Just had a meeting with the head guy of my accountancy here and he outlined the position exactly as nodric did in his above post.