BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[ASB]

However, if we win this then it will have the opposite effect. Everyone will know that HMRC cannot go back and change the rules. The best thing HMRC can do now is to drop the case and accept that the tax planning was effective. If they take this to court, defend their positon, and lose - then it will cost them far more than £200 million in lost income. And there is nothing they can do to undo that failure - short of leaving the EU.

Talk about shooting themselves in the foot.

That is precisely why HMRC will NOT go to the comissioners with a single case they think they might potentially lose (they have to go to commissioners of course to get any contested judgement). The JR is out of their control, but if the retrospective element is upheld as potentially compatible HMRC will not put themselves in a position where they might actually lose. That way lies certainty, and they cannot allow that to happen.

Personally if I were affected I would do one of two things.

- A nominal settlement (say a fiver) to allow them to close the enquiry and save a bit of face.
- Insist on a special commissioners hearing as the alternative (with the techincal aspects of this I'd not go anywhere near the generals, because at the generals I believe HMRC would almost certainly win. At the specials almost certainly lose).

Having been in a similar position with a previous enquiry HMRC will only negotiate sensibly when they have a stark choice. Even if the JR is lost that doesn't mean the asessments have to be accepted.

[ASB]

That is now costing me around 20% pa in additional tax exposure, not to mention possible IR35 risk (I said....Don't mention IR35 risk).

[ducks for cover]

Good. It's quite clearly "wrong" that you should be able to avoid the taxes in the manner you have. But that is only of consideration going forwards.

The governments actions are completely reprehensible. It is perfectly acceptable for you to be as creative in your tax affairs as you want, and that is all you are "guilty" of.

[BrilloPad]

having taken it this far they obvioulsy thought they were onto a winner

1. Its not their money they waste chasing us.
2. It prolongs the case and our agony
3. it sends a message out to others

In short I dont believe they are capable of rational thought.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

No deal

HMRC will not offer a deal unless they are resigned to losing.

So why would anyone even consider it?

I haven't worked all these months to let them off the hook. I will feel totally cheated if we don't get our day in court OR unless the Treasury is forced to do a U-turn.

I will have been under enquiry for 6 years in October. That is 6 years of my life where I have had to put up with s***ty letters, bullying tactics and more recently lies and stonewalling from this Government.

I want justice now, and nothing less will do.

[Emigre]

HMRC will not offer a deal unless they are resigned to losing.

So why would anyone even consider it?

I haven't worked all these months to let them off the hook. I will feel totally cheated if we don't get our day in court OR unless the Treasury is forced to do a U-turn.

I will have been under enquiry for 6 years in October. That is 6 years of my life where I have had to put up with s***ty letters, bullying tactics and more recently lies and stonewalling from this Government.

I want justice now, and nothing less will do.

Great new signature DR. Does your donkey do a line in T-shirts as well as rugs?

[Squicker]

As far as I'm concerned I acted within the law at the time that I entered into this planning arrangement and continued to act within the law throughout the time I used the arrangements. HMRC have not brought a test case to prove that this was not the case.

Therefore, I am not interested in any offer or deal that starts with anything other than 0%. For that I may consider not following up with claims for stress, harrassment and so on. I will however pursue them when we win for not closing off my tax returns for all these years which has resulted in me needing a self-certified mortgage at a higher spread over base rate. Anyone for a class action?

I will definitely be suing HMRC when we win and have already engaged my lawyers on an approach. I don't care that it prolongs it because I'll simply leave it with my lawyers to run up a nice bill which they will end up paying.

Now we have a JR hearing granted it's a done deal as far as I am concerned.

[Ratican]

No Deal for me...

HMRC will not offer a deal unless they are resigned to losing.

So why would anyone even consider it?

I haven't worked all these months to let them off the hook. I will feel totally cheated if we don't get our day in court OR unless the Treasury is forced to do a U-turn.

I will have been under enquiry for 6 years in October. That is 6 years of my life where I have had to put up with s***ty letters, bullying tactics and more recently lies and stonewalling from this Government.

I want justice now, and nothing less will do.

...and I have a strong feeling that we are going to get this justice you speak of.

[SLB]

I will however pursue them when we win for not closing off my tax returns for all these years which has resulted in me needing a self-certified mortgage at a higher spread over base rate. Anyone for a class action?

Hi Emigre,
Have you had trouble with credit checks that prevented you from getting other types or mortgages or finance? If so, for how long and was it before you had CN's or after?


BTW - DR, that is a top quality new signature!

[NO TO RETRO]

HMRC will not offer a deal unless they are resigned to losing.

So why would anyone even consider it?

I haven't worked all these months to let them off the hook. I will feel totally cheated if we don't get our day in court OR unless the Treasury is forced to do a U-turn.

I will have been under enquiry for 6 years in October. That is 6 years of my life where I have had to put up with s***ty letters, bullying tactics and more recently lies and stonewalling from this Government.

I want justice now, and nothing less will do.

I haven't received any CNs as yet. Do you know if HMRC will suspend sending them out now that we've been granted the JR? Obviously I'll be sending them straight off to MontP to appeal if they do arrive.

[smalldog]

I haven't received any CNs as yet. Do you know if HMRC will suspend sending them out now that we've been granted the JR? Obviously I'll be sending them straight off to MontP to appeal if they do arrive.

I reckon they will continue to send them out in the hope some less informed soul will pay up...They will then have a hell of a job getting the money back when we win...But hey HMRC dont play fair so no surprises there...For a government department they are absolutely disgraceful..I have lost total respect for them and they will never ever get me back onside after this...