BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[BrilloPad]

Thinking ahead to the JR proceedings.

If MP feel the need to advocate the requirement for all of us to be able to retrospectively re-plan our tax affairs from 1987, similar to someone else we know, will they (MP) ask us all individually in advance for agreement or is it a given that we all agree to this underhand tactic?

It will never happen. It is just used to (further) illustrate how underhand the HMRC retrospective stance is.

BP

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Register with the Government Gateway

Does anybody know if Montpelier confirms that they will appeal on your behalf upon receipt of email/correspondence?

I sent all my stuff off electronically on the 20Dec08 asking for confirmation that they will be appealing on my behalf and have received no reply.

I have also chased it since then without success.

I appreciate that they are very busy but just want to be sure that they have my stuff and will be appealing on my behalf....

E-Mail was sent to TQ,NW & JD

Thanks

And Thanks again to all the very positive contributions to this forum.

If you register with the Government Gateway, you can check whether the appeals have been lodged on-line.

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/registration/individual

However, since this takes a week to 10 days to set up, it may be too late in your case.

If I was you, I would ring your tax office and check that they have received them.

[ChimpMaster]

The stress of all this must be overpowering - causing serious emotional problems is one of the main objectives of HMRC, hence for example the sending of notices just prior to Christmas. They are extremely spiteful people, completely lacking tact and empathy of any sort.

In the past I've had a couple of minor inquiries from Special Compliance, and it's been a nasty process to go through (not as bad as this though). I just want to say that I feel for anyone in your position, and I hope things don't drag on too long.

I know it sounds bad, but sometimes it's best to just get it over and done with - whatever the result - and move on.

Has it crossed your mind to do a deal with the devil (depending on affordability), just to give you peace of mind? Would HMRC do a deal?

[smalldog]

The stress of all this must be overpowering - causing serious emotional problems is one of the main objectives of HMRC, hence for example the sending of notices just prior to Christmas. They are extremely spiteful people, completely lacking tact and empathy of any sort.

In the past I've had a couple of minor inquiries from Special Compliance, and it's been a nasty process to go through (not as bad as this though). I just want to say that I feel for anyone in your position, and I hope things don't drag on too long.

I know it sounds bad, but sometimes it's best to just get it over and done with - whatever the result - and move on.

Has it crossed your mind to do a deal with the devil (depending on affordability), just to give you peace of mind? Would HMRC do a deal?

Taz from what IVe heard they arent into doing deals. This isnt a particularly sound strategy with the markets as they are. HMRC probably have more chance of getting a bigger wedge from people now where they to offer a settlement of some sort than wait a couple of years when some people might be in a position to pay less than right now. So rather than avoid costly litigation paid for by the general public, bankrupting some people for might be a couple of grand they are likely to go for broke. Common sense and logic arent in the HMRC dictionary and as previously stated they are very very spiteful and vindictive. Any person with some sort of a business brain would do a proper risk assessment of recouping any debt and settling on an appropriate and proportionate settlement. Of course some people will be in a position to pay should HMRC win, however there are a lot who cant rather than wont. What will their strategy be, break these people to teach tme a damn fine lesson or actually accept a settlement people can afford. I fear it wont be the latter.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The stress of all this must be overpowering - causing serious emotional problems is one of the main objectives of HMRC, hence for example the sending of notices just prior to Christmas.

I am one of the lucky ones, in the worst case scenario I can afford to pay. I'm not saying it will be painless handing over a 6 figure sum but it won't seriously affect my life.

I hate to think what it's like for people who don't have the means to pay. The stress and worry must be unbearable.

If everyone was in the same position as me then it would be different but there's a hell of a lot more at stake here than money. For me personally, this battle is no longer about self-interest, it is about stopping an arrogant government abusing the law to persecute people.

[bombaycat]

I am one of the lucky ones, in the worst case scenario I can afford to pay. I'm not saying it will be painless handing over a 6 figure sum but it won't seriously affect my life.

I hate to think what it's like for people who don't have the means to pay. The stress and worry must be unbearable.

If everyone was in the same position as me then it would be different but there's a hell of a lot more at stake here than money. For me personally, this battle is no longer about self-interest, it is about stopping an arrogant government abusing the law to persecute people.

Currently I'm also in the same position as you DR, without wishing to sound like a crusader it seriously p*sses me off that certain types of people seem to be able to get away with 6 figure remuneration for half day a month "consultancy" just because they are ex-government figures and the rest of us slogging away doing 6am support shifts from unprivileged backgrounds aren't allowed to use the law as it is written by those same people. Double standards really get my back up, I feel really badly for all of you (and many of my friends are in this category) who will not be able to pay should the worst happen.
If I am in a position (i.e. not on the bench as currently) I'll try to give anyone a contract that I know to be in this position....got to find myself a job first though....
The Cat

[seadog]

http://www.tax.org.uk/attach.pl/7561...23_TA_1208.pdf

Mentions BN66/Section 58 towards the end.

Well done DR for rooting out these reports, they have certainly provoked a lot of response on the forum in the past couple of days

The more I read the more I realise what a poor case HMRC have if they used the "nuclear" sovereignty of parliament to enforce their interpretation.

If they had any conviction in thier interpretation of the DTA rules they would simply have taken it to the commissioners as they do all the time with other cases.

Always bear in mind that as well as getting back tax another equally important point of this action by HMRC is frustrate future tax planning schemes (or tax avoidance as HMRC call it)

The sooner this matter gets to the JR the better.

[BrilloPad]

Well done DR for rooting out these reports, they have certainly provoked a lot of response on the forum in the past couple of days

The more I read the more I realise what a poor case HMRC have if they used the "nuclear" sovereignty of parliament to enforce their interpretation.

If they had any conviction in thier interpretation of the DTA rules they would simply have taken it to the commissioners as they do all the time with other cases.

Always bear in mind that as well as getting back tax another equally important point of this action by HMRC is frustrate future tax planning schemes (or tax avoidance as HMRC call it)
The sooner this matter gets to the JR the better.

I agree very strongly.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Always bear in mind that as well as getting back tax another equally important point of this action by HMRC is frustrate future tax planning schemes (or tax avoidance as HMRC call it)

I reckon that this was probably their primary motive all along and it's working. Although the scheme promoters were quick to come up with alternatives, there is no doubt that s.58 has put a lot of punters off.

This is also why they will not give up, even if they recognise their position is unwinnable. The longer they draw it out the more damage it inflicts on the tax planning industry. For them this is just one battle in the ongoing war against tax avoidance.

[johnnyguitar]

Is there an easy way to calculate roughly how much would be owed ?

I only have a year or two (when did MTM switch us away from this ?) and might be able to pay (only if we fail though), but it would be nice to know what is at stake.

I am one of the lucky ones, in the worst case scenario I can afford to pay. I'm not saying it will be painless handing over a 6 figure sum but it won't seriously affect my life.

I hate to think what it's like for people who don't have the means to pay. The stress and worry must be unbearable.

If everyone was in the same position as me then it would be different but there's a hell of a lot more at stake here than money. For me personally, this battle is no longer about self-interest, it is about stopping an arrogant government abusing the law to persecute people.