BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[BrilloPad]

Today I got a "Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice" for 2006/07. I hope MP can translate that into English?

[BrilloPad]

About time I de-lurked

I was in MP scheme for 4 years and for two of those years I submitted my returns myself in the September rather than waiting for MP in the January (especially as my first year the return got in on the last day of January).
The revenue calculated my liability and I paid what they stated.

Can they charge me interest if they calculated the liability at the time and now they reckon I owe tax on DTA part ?

MP say :-

Many thanks for trying to take the load off us. But you did yourself and others no favours!

HMRC have an enquiry window it starts the day you submit the Tax Return until 31 January of the year following so 2005/06 enquiry window starts 31/1/07 - 31/1/08. If you submit your Tax Return in say August 2006 for the 2005/06 tax year you are giving HMRC 6 extra months to pry. That is why MTM had a policy of submitting Tax Returns on the last day!

[Ratican]

Invalid Notices

Today I got a "Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice" for 2006/07. I hope MP can translate that into English?

It has something to do with the time limit for HMRC to open an enquiry into your return.
A search pointed to this HMRC bulletin which seems relevent to us although seems to relate to a 1996/1997 return:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/bulletins/sec9atbse.pdf

"The question of the time limit for opening an enquiry into a self assessment return has been considered by the Special Commissioners in the cases of Wing Hung Lai v Bale and Mary Holly and John Laurel v An Inspector. During the second hearing the legal issues were fully argued by barristers for both sides but the Commissioner again found that the time limit in Section 9A TMA 1970 operated by reference to when the taxpayer received the notice of intention to open an enquiry.

We now accept that, for returns filed on time, an enquiry is valid only if the notice is delivered no later than 30 January."

"‘ENQUIRIES’ FOLLOWING INVALID NOTICES
Where a notice turns out to have been delivered too late:
! Section 19A TMA 1970 notices to obtain information will be invalid;
! We cannot recover any lost tax by amending the taxpayer’s self assessment following the closure of an enquiry, but there will often be other legal means which achieve the same effect."

[ASB]

Today I got a "Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice" for 2006/07. I hope MP can translate that into English?

Your enquiry count would appear to be going up by 1.......

[BrilloPad]

It has something to do with the time limit for HMRC to open an enquiry into your return.
A search pointed to this HMRC bulletin which seems relevent to us although seems to relate to a 1996/1997 return:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/bulletins/sec9atbse.pdf

"The question of the time limit for opening an enquiry into a self assessment return has been considered by the Special Commissioners in the cases of Wing Hung Lai v Bale and Mary Holly and John Laurel v An Inspector. During the second hearing the legal issues were fully argued by barristers for both sides but the Commissioner again found that the time limit in Section 9A TMA 1970 operated by reference to when the taxpayer received the notice of intention to open an enquiry.

We now accept that, for returns filed on time, an enquiry is valid only if the notice is delivered no later than 30 January."

"‘ENQUIRIES’ FOLLOWING INVALID NOTICES
Where a notice turns out to have been delivered too late:
! Section 19A TMA 1970 notices to obtain information will be invalid;
! We cannot recover any lost tax by amending the taxpayer’s self assessment following the closure of an enquiry, but there will often be other legal means which achieve the same effect."

Your enquiry count would appear to be going up by 1.......

Many thanks chaps - as per my post above from montp they are just putting their foot in the door before it closes on 31st Jan 2009!

Montp put it slightly differently :-
==============================
Opening an enquiry into 06/07.....

Lucky you!!
==============================

[BrilloPad]

Why can't HMRC just say "we are opening an enquiry into you. be ready to adopt the brace position!"?

[SantaClaus]

Today I got a "Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice" for 2006/07. I hope MP can translate that into English?

Wow, what is that?

You havent been sectioned have you Brillo?

You did complain yesterday that you hadnt received anything!

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

De-lurking to stop Brillo twisting my arm all the time

Been with MTM since 2004 ...off set mortgage so .....as the name implies ...can pay but would rather not ...wont bother with CTD.

De-lurking to stop Brillo pompting me as I walk by to the coffee machine ...

Found the forum an excellent read since the early days ...such a shame we can't bad mouth Lord Voldemort these days ....

too lazy to go ltd ....so sticking with MTM ...(in sickness and in health)
......not a fan of loans .....but saving money like made ...incase it all goes pete tong.

[Emigre]

Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice

Today I got a "Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice" for 2006/07. I hope MP can translate that into English?

I joined MP in 2003/04, first return submitted January 2005, limit of enquiry opening available to HMRC was January 2006. I received a Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice for 2003/04 in November 2005 advising of their intention to open an enquiry. Apparently, all HMRC have to do to "keep the enquiry open" is to send you a letter once a year.

Personally, I feel that their performance of this requirement is questionable. Firstly, the only letter I received during the following 12 months was a Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice for 2004/05 in November 2006. Admittedly this notice referred to the previous enquiry as being ongoing. This is the first time I was notified that an enquiry HAD BEEN STARTED. The Section 9A TMA 1970 Notices state only that an enquiry WILL BE STARTED. The quote from Ratican infers that the enquiry has to have started within the 12 month period.

This process was repeated in November of 2007. Secondly, during this period HMRC did not ask me a single question relating to my SA return. There is no evidence of them having actually done anything - unless nothing is now something.

A few weeks ago there was a suggestion on this thread that we should respond by tying up HMRC with questions. Here might be a valid question that could provide revealing insight:

Dear Hector

Re: Tax Year 2003/04

I refer to your Section 9A TMA 1970 Notice dated November 2005. You have not sought to appraise me of the status of your enquiries or that the matter is closed. I believe that during this period you have done little to close the matter. Please provide a detailed chronology of the efforts taken by HMRC to agree closure for the above year.

I look forward to your response within your committed response period.

Yours sincerely

A question for the thread. Are we entitled to see a copy of the HMRC files held on us? I'm sure they would charge but my god it would tie them up. If we are entitled to see our files then that is the request that should be made as an amendment to the above draft.

Thoughts?

[Fisherman]

Re

A question for the thread. Are we entitled to see a copy of the HMRC files held on us? I'm sure they would charge but my god it would tie them up. If we are entitled to see our files then that is the request that should be made as an amendment to the above draft.

I have had similar thought, surely we have ground for complaint against HMRC for keeping this open for so long, has any one asked MP about this, dont want to bother them at the moment.