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How can that guy honestly think he falls outside IR35 when he worked for the same company at the same desk for 7 years!!! dear oh dear, Mal this doesnt help your cause does it, what a P*ss take!
Last edited by Contractor UK; 7 October 2011, 12:19.
you insinuated it was only us scheme scum that were damaging reputations and contractor PR, then u have clowns like this in the same contract for 7 years trying to get away with not paying PAYE....what a joke....
you insinuated it was only us scheme scum that were damaging reputations and contractor PR, then u have clowns like this in the same contract for 7 years trying to get away with not paying PAYE....what a joke....
No, I said that you don't get out of IR35 by pretending it doesn't exist, you have to put some effort into it and you have to make sure your working practices are aligned to the contract and to being outside IR35. This guy didn't and is paying the price.
Seven years at one client is nothing to do with it, that's merely prolonging a sound commercial arrangement.
No, I said that you don't get out of IR35 by pretending it doesn't exist, you have to put some effort into it and you have to make sure your working practices are aligned to the contract and to being outside IR35. This guy didn't and is paying the price.
Seven years at one client is nothing to do with it, that's merely prolonging a sound commercial arrangement.
I disagree, the 7 years did have something to do with it. If he had been in this contract 3 months none of this would have happened....The 7 years raised it to HMRC's attention and made it even more indefensible in the eyes of the court (rightly or wrongly)..Its not that black and white Mal, heres an extract:
Summing up, Special Commissioner concluded: “Under the contextual circumstances I found that Mr Shepherd was not exposed to significant financial risk from his engagement with Gerling NCM.
“Mr Shepherd was part of the scenery at Gerling NCM. There was no compelling evidence that Mr Shepherd was in business on his own account during his engagement with Gerling NCM.
“His established tax treatment as a self-employed person did not prevent him from being an employee of Gerling NCM and [is] of no significance in the light of all the circumstances.
“I find that the hypothetical contract would have the necessary irreducible minimum to constitute an employment contract. When I stand back and consider the position as a whole I conclude that the picture painted of the relationship between Gerling NCM and Mr Shepherd was overwhelmingly one of employment.”
You are very black and white in your judgements, courts good or bad dont always work like that..so watch out IR35 avoiders, Hector's coming after you after this appeal win!!!
I disagree, the 7 years did have somethign to do with it. If he had been in this contract 3 months none of this would have happened....The 7 years raised it to HMRC's attention and made it even more indefensible in the eyes of the court (rightly or wrongly)..
I agree, that prolonging a sound commercial arrangement is what being in business on your own account is all about. It concerns me that decisions are being made to not act in a commercial way, because of such implications. This is bad for business.
Consider that some large contractors that take government projects often agreed for a period of 10 years from the outset. I don't think I need to name any of them here.
The cost of getting a new client is often high, which obviously makes it more viable to target existing clients with new services, or continuing to provide the same services, than walking away from clients and seeking new clients. Likewise using existing contacts to find projects is cheaper than cold calling new clients. Considering this, renewing with an existing client is very business like.
Maintaining a positive client relationship for a long period of time, then choosing to walk away from it doesn't make sense to me. I believe other aspects should be considered in this contect, such as how things are presented in a long client relationship.
Obvious areas to look at include:
1) Business Cards
2) Corporate Branding
3) Website
4) Client testimonials
5) Corporate Brochure
6) PR in magazines about the projects you are working on.
7) Any other promotional materials
Basically anything that promotes your business as a business, and shows of your own corporate brand identity.
trouble is Mal, you think you are outside legislation and so do scheme users. We are all in the same boat but utilising an interpretation of different legislations to our own ends. You are actually in a worse situation than scheme users, not only is IR35 already legilsation (ours is a draft bill) but an appeal case has been lost...Thats a whole further down the nail in the coffin road than us, HMRc now have a successful test case, oh dear...time for some contingency planning Mal...
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