Having trouble with my Accountants :(

**Danbro** · 7 April 2008, 14:38

Danbro Accounting Limited

Hi Kylie,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

With regards to your P60 query, it all depends on what you are paying for really, if you have reduced fees because you are preparing your own P35 then you accountant wouldnt prepare your P60 as this really is most of the work in preparing a P35.

You could sign up online with HMRC to file your P35 online, you could then complete the P60 online and print a copy then finalise your P35.

With regards to your accounts, you are in a tricky position that if you change and your new accountant sends professional clearance your current accountant may not prepare your accounts as they will in theory no longer act for you, however as a goodwill gesture they may prepare your accounts and then forward the details to your new accountant.

Alternatively, you could maybe ask your current accountant for a refund for not preparing your accounts if you have paid monthly, remember the fees you have paid are a 1/12th of your annuall fees, then get a quote from a new accountant for a set of accounts to bring you up to date, if both fees match then you wont be out of pocket.

I hope I have helped.

Thanks

**Kylie** · 7 April 2008, 14:55

Hi Neil,

Thanks for your reply. For some more information, I have been paying monthly fees for the entire year, which have amounted to almost £800. My accountants now say that this entitles me to a 'book-keeping' only service, and that if I want my P35/P11/P14 prepared, it will be an additional £195 and if I want my annual accounts prepared, it will be £250-£500. I am well aware that I have been ripped off with my monthly fees, but unfortunately this was a company that changed quickly from the 'Umbrella' service to the Directorship service, and it was clear from the start they had no idea what they are doing!

I am not keen to pay them another cent, as they are just ripping me off, hence why I am trying to finalise my accounts myself! I have professional Accounting training, but am qualified in Australia, not the UK, so don't have a 100% understanding of the UK tax system (yet!). But I believe I can do the returns myself, I just don't want to get stuck without a P60 if I am unable to prepare one myself.

I do take on board that a P60 is effectively a P35 though, so if I am not paying them to prepare that, then I understand that they won't be keen to do the work for a P60. With regards to filing online, I am having issues registering for PAYE Online services, as my accountant currently has me registered as an 'agents' registration, and I can't register personally while I am already registered. I have called both the Accountants and the HMRC Helpline, but I am getting nowhere!! The Accountant's said HMRC needs to de-register me, HMRC said it's the Accountants job. I think my Accountant just has no idea what they are doing!

With regards to getting someone else to prepare them, I have contacted one of the recommended firms from the boards, and have been quoted around an additional £600 to have my accounts bought up to date, basically similar to what I have already paid my current accountants to do nothing! I have Interim Accounts until Nov/Dec which were prepared for a Visa application, so it's only a few months that need doing, hence why I am not keen on paying another £600 to have them all redone.

I guess I am trying to get out of this mess without it costing me a fortune....and before anyone says 'I should have known what I was paying for', the contracts that were signed were prepared in a rush post budget last year, after the umbrella companies all collapsed. They didn't even know what was required in terms of documents/returns etc, so basically the signed contract is not even worth the paper it is written on. I accept that it is my fault for not having a clearer understanding of things, I am just trying to sort it all out now before it gets into too big of a mess!

Thanks again Neil, appreciate your reply.

Kylie

**NotAllThere** · 8 April 2008, 07:21

If I understand correctly, you want to know whether an accountant has to prepare a P60 for you, or whether you can do it yourself.

You can do it yourself.

A number of contractors do not have an accountant (which I wouldn't recommend), and prepare all their accounts and statutory returns themselves. There is no legal requirement to have an accountant. Only above a certain turnover threshold are audited accounts required.

**Silas** · 12 April 2008, 14:33

Perhaps a word of warning may help here...just because an accountant spends a lot of time posting on a bulletin board such as this doesn't mean they will provide a good sevice.

I have used one such accountant and the service was truly awful. They were unable to add up columns of figures correctly or carry forward from one year's accounts to the next without error. Even worse, they were not forthcoming in correcting the errors, I had to do it myself. I spent many hours writing letters to the accountant and HMRC to sort things out.

Fortunately, there is an easy answer, which is, only use those accountancy services mentioned on the PCG Quality Services list (I assume you're a member!). Once I did exactly that, the contrast could not have been more marked. My old provider generated a long list of errors, but the new one has so far generated none, and I know because I now check everything. My old provider didn't speak to me once despite my repeated phone calls to his office, but the new one has been extremely helpful on many occasions, even in helping to correct errors from the old regime.

The PCG set up the list for a reason and speaking from harsh experience, if an accountant isn't on the list, why not? There's probably a good reason.

Good luck!

**philip@wellwoodhoyle** · 13 April 2008, 19:16

I'd recommend that you didn't bother with getting a local accountant as an interim measure. Not only will the cost probably be far higher (as there is no long term relationship looking forward, to get some goodwill discount), it complicates the issue if you really intend to change again in just a few months time, and there will again be a crossover period.

What I would suggest is to change now to whichever firm you feel happiest with for the long term and let them deal with the legacy problems. If you talk to a few accountants, I am sure that you'll get a good deal (or even a freebie) to bring the accounts and returns up to date if you sign up to the monthly package from now on. It is certainly something that we'd be happy to talk about - we often take on unhappy clients from other firms and bring them up to date without charge, or for a nominal fee, to generate a good long term relationship and goodwill.

Re the P60, you can do it yourself - presumably you have payslips, so the calculations are already done. As others have said, the P35 and P60 are basically the same job. You can get blank P60s from HMRC. You can even get free or very cheap online payroll systems that do the same job. In fact, HMRC provide a free CD if you ask them.

When choosing an accountant, you can't rely on a professional body (i.e. chartered) nor a trade organisation (PCG) to guarantee good service. Accountancy is a personal service and any firm will only be as good as the employee they allocate to you. Look for guaranteed service levels, make sure you know who you will be dealing with on a day to day basis. Contact a few - any that don't return your call or email can be forgotten straight away. Make sure that you have several "communications" with them before making the decision. Far more important than trade bodies or professional bodies are recommendations - do you know anyone who is happy with their accountant?

**malvolio** · 13 April 2008, 20:13

Seconded - but can I just point out that the PCG QA scheme emphatically does not warrant the abilties and performance of the accountancy firm's practice, merely that they have had serious, in depth training in IR35 and its related manifestations: in other words, they are set up to deal with the average one-man-band contractor business.

As Philip so rightly says, you have to assess how good they are in general by more traditional methods. In fact most if not all of the QA practices are pretty damn good, but then if they weren't, they wouldn't entertain laying out money for the QA kitemark, would they...

**chris79** · 13 April 2008, 22:19

Please ignore, posted the wrong response on the wrong thread lol (how??).

**hgllgh** · 14 April 2008, 09:46

If you have paid your accountant for the full financial year then I would have thought they are contractually bound to provide the PAYE year end processing for that year. The PAYE documents that they process should be in the initial engagement letter. I would view that as a contract of deliverables. If they refuse then you could threaten legal action through the small claims courts. That would probably swing it. Who are you accountants?

Having trouble with my Accountants :(